[â™«omâ™«] mooji a direct introductionto perfect presence 7 december 2014mooji sangha bhavan sunday satsang [background music playing] [silence as mooji enters] [long silence] [mooji:] okay.
om.namaste. welcome everyoneto satsang today. and welcome, big welcome,also, to the many friends who are joining us today via broadcasting from all over the world. we are very happy
for this because weknow many people would like to be here in person or in form, but for whatever reason are not able to be herein this way. but we can join in in real timevia internet.
so, we're veryhappy for this. and i hope...i see, also, many new faces. and, i am hoping that you're a little familiar with the subjectthat we meet abouttoday. i don't even want
to limit it to say, the subjectdiscussed only, because the very totality of us being here is concerningthe subject of our true nature. to come to a clarity, for it seems
most human beings are not awareof ourselves at the deepest level. and, what is this life? what is this life? and who are we in this life? so, this isthe topic here. and, i want to say from the start
that in comingtogether like this, my own perspective is not merely to discuss, and to exchange concepts, or to impart some philosophicaloutlook to you. but at every moment is the opportunity to go within
and to discover. more thansimply to learn but to discover. because that alone will staywith you; what you knowin your heart, not only what you think with your mind. so, with that said,
welcome,and... very, very good. okay. you come,then, for me. hi.[mooji chuckles] very good. good to see you. come, sit there. [questioner:] hi, guruji.[m:] hi. [q:] there's a sense of a huge effort going on.
[m:] yes.[q:] and, at the same time,it's seen. yeah, at the same time, somehow, the seeing doesn't seem to make the effort any less, somehow. [m:] the effort is for what?
you said there's a huge effortgoing on. so, effort is for what? [q:] it's to...to be. there's an effort to be. [m:] withoutthe effort to be, what are you?[laughter] [m:] that you have to ... [q:] i know it sounds crazy. [laughs]
[m:] when youput it like that, yeah. [laughter;mooji laughs] [m]: because youmust be already, no? even to be askingthe question, no? that the effort to be is on top of the effortless being. is there notan effortless-ness about being?
hmm?or... because we are referred to as human beings, no? not humanbecomings. [laughter] human being, human being making effort to be. so, i feel it's important
to look into that extra - to be what? more than whatbeing-ness implies? so... you see? effort to be:it must be something that we picked up, and we have not quite understood. and we must not practice something
unless you havean understanding what you aredoing, you know? so if you try to be too... at least, clarify, you know, acutely, what it means to practice 'to be', as it is understood in your own self.
what it means. i mean, first of all, is it enough 'to be'? because everyoneknow 'they are.' everybody knows 'they are'. you know the feeling 'i am'. 'i exist'. what is not known is, as what do you exist?
because we say, 'i exist', but when you say, 'who is it that exist?' we have not gone further than just the feeling of 'i'. 'i' is what? the person? largely, it is accepted that when it is said like that,
it is spoken by a person. the person exist. you see. but is what you are, merely a person? and what is a person? if you are30 years old, 25, 30, 40... have youbeen, consistently,
the same person? what is a person? does it change? or is it, constantly, the same? hmm? is it one thing but keeps onchanging? or is it never just fixed,
it's always changeful? and memorymake it seem as though it's one, but it's always changing. what is it? a person, you see. even to lookinto this alone, it's going to be of some interest orsome value for you.
because wesay many things but haven't looked deeply into what we are saying. we only seem to understandsuperficially because if you are from portugal,you know, you learn to speak portuguese very naturally.
and you inherit words from other people and fromyour environment without having to look deeply into them. and, if some word is important it must be the 'i'. the 'i' word
must be the most important because other words cannot happen until the 'i' word is there. because every time you speak something, you say, 'i think this thing,' or 'i want,' or 'i choose,'
'i remember,' 'i used to do this,' 'i want to do' - i, i, i, i. it's behindevery utterance, every statement. even thought, it's behind each thought - 'i think.'
remember - breathe even - 'i breathe.' have you ever seen an 'i' breathing? it will claim even that. the breathing is happening by itself. when you're in deep sleep
breathing is going on. nobody says, 'i breathe.' but the 'i'takes even this - so, it's important. as you will come to see more and more, if you wantto go more into the subject of your own reality,
you will haveto find out what 'i' is. because to find out what everything else in life is without finding out who the 'i' who findsthem out is, then yourknowledge is not reliable,
if you don't know the knowerof knowledge. who is 'i'? is it constant? now, some of you may have come and think, 'well, our subjectwould have been discussedin another way.' like, you know,
'is yoga good?' or you know, 'i've done thistype of thing, and i'm going togo to india. would you advise me to go to this ashram?' i say, listen,who is your 'i'? 'ooh, i was not readyfor that,' you know. 'i am me.i am...'
and you start to describe you, or try to define you, and all you're talking about is your body. 'i am 25 years old.' the body is 25 years old. 'i'm a woman.' we can see that, it's a female.
and everything we speak, almost, is about our body. are we, merely,our bodies? so, i like to start at the fundamental things, you know? if we understand the fundamental things, then all the other things
will fall into place. if your foundationis no good, then your building will be suspect. and of all foundations, the 'i' foundation is the mostimportant. we all say 'i', but what do weunderstood,
or feel, or take 'i' to be? 'i' and 'being', they are synonymous,somehow, even the feeling 'i am'. is there anyone here who can getthrough a day without feeling 'i am'? everyone refers to them self as 'i'. 'i' is our naturalname, actually.
and yet, nobodygave it to you. 'i' is our natural name, and yet, nobodygave it to you. no parent hasnamed their child, 'you shallbe called i.' then the child grow up, and they say, 'this child will be called john.' and the child seems to grow up
and says,'i am john.' but 'i' is not john. we need to find what 'i' is. so, if we can clear only this up, it will touch into a placewithin our self that i'm sure,it will be... you will say,'yes, it was worth it.' just to look into
just this thing. rather than study, go university, study all the things - study astronomy, study astrology, study politics, study biology, study geography,
study religion. if i say, study your 'i'. [soft laughter] if you know your 'i', then you'll know the others because they came out of 'i'. without 'i', they aremeaningless. and nobody has gone...
in no curriculum, in no university you seethe subject is 'i'. nobody discuss it; nobody looks into it. only those regarded as the sages in the human kingdom - the buddhas,
and the christs,and so on, the shivas,and so on - understoodthe power of 'i', the truth of 'i'. and they've found it in its true meaning to be so important that they forgot everything else.
they forgot everything else, including them self. they forgot everything else to find what this 'i' is, and where this 'i' come from. and becausethey forgot everything else, including them self, the whole worldcannot stop
remembering them. isn't it funny, huh?[laughter] yeah. they forgot them self, and the world cannot forget them. we are desperately trying to rememberour self, to keep a self.[laughter]
to even beimportant in the world. people, 'no.' why did we getonto this subject? you started onlyby saying, 'i want to be.' but i said,but you are, no? huh? when you say, 'i am',
it means to be. 'am' means to be. he says, 'i am'. who is the 'i' who 'am'? can you imagine, we knowso many subject; there's no other species on this planet that has studied
like thehuman being. they're the mostcurious species. they want to know everything. not only on this planet, but other planets, also, they want to know. huh?[laughter] isn't it? we want to knowother planets.
we want to knowwhat happens. some people talk,you know, '50 billion years ago, this was whatwas happening.' and if you ask them what they had for breakfast yesterday, they can't remember.[laughter] 50 billion years ago. [m]: there's a joke somewhere
in this, i think.[laughter] who is the 'i' that 'am'? what is it? if 'am' means 'to be', what does 'i' mean? [silence] if you don't allow this feeling 'i' to connectwith any thought,
any concept from anyzone of time, it is there. we can do now. we can find out now. something is here. if it is not connected with anythingfrom any language,
any word,any concept, any belief, any form, because it perceives everything. if it is not attached to any, or connected with any concept. try it now,and see.
don't say the words, because even the words you speakwill not be it. it sees the wordsbeing spoken. it observes the breath, even. it sees seeing. it perceivesperceiving. it does not need the mind; it watches mind,
but not evenwith interest. can you feel? can you feel or not? [q:] yes.[m:] yes. [m:] you can feel. what can you describe? [m:] hmm? everything comes after. first, the 'i'must arise.
if you wake up this morningat 7 o'clock, at 6:59:59, where were you? what couldyou discuss? what wasyour name? seven o'clock, something comes into being;
a natural sense of 'i'm here,' even withoutthe words. it is the firstto arise, no? you cannot perceive the sense of 'you', before the sense of 'i'. first, the sense of 'i' must be there.
eh?this knowledge, this consciousness,'i am', must bethere first. then the senseof 'you', or 'other', or 'world' can come. you can sayit is the first born of consciousness. the feeling,'i am'. so, this 'i am',itself, arises
because at6:59:59, it was not there. at 7:00,it came into into being,you can say. it becameself-aware. and now,it is 3:33, it is still in the waking state. now,it knows time,
three, three, three but can anything know it? even to say, 'i am', it knows 'i am'. it perceives the sense 'i am', the thought'i am'. it perceives the thought 'you', and 'world',
and 'late', and 'breakfast'; and everything else, it is perceiving. but does ithave a shape? breakfast this morning is muesli. the body consume; enjoyment takes place,
and is perceived to take place. satisfaction or dissatisfaction also arises, to arise from the place of 'i'. that is a kindof witness, a kind of a witnessing of what is arising.
so, before even any of this, i say, if you don't attach any intention, or idea, or identity to 'i', so, nothing at all! when you start counting, you startcounting from one,not from zero.
one, then two, then three,then four. but beforeyou get to one, one arises outof zero, no? but you don't say, 'zero'. okay? 'i' is at the zero place. it watches one happen, and two, and three,
and four, and five. so, don't touch any, don't touch one! are you, or are you not? am i on my ownin this, or what? [audience affirms] [m:] okay, we're... you're here?[audience:] yes. [m:] oh thank you, thank you. so, you don't touch one,
you're here, no? you, naturally,know you are. you don't need a mirror to know you are. you know you are. supposing someone was having operation, or you were in some coma, or you wake up,
suddenlybecome awake, and there's nothing to see, nothing to touch, or to feel,or to measure, nothing at allto perceive, would you not, also, know that you are? wouldn't younaturally know, 'i exist'?
hmm? yes. as what do you exist? first feel,then say. do now. don't hold onto anything. [friend:] i am that which is all. [m:] 'i am that which is.' why all? where does 'all'come from?
'all' is later. you can feel. i gave examplelast week, and i'm going to repeat this week because many are new. and i think it is worth to share. once, we were making one guided meditation.
we were recording a guidedmeditation where, you see... and then,at some point, i was listening to a guidedmeditation, and, there was a period of silence,
no? and the silence... i remember that the silence was longer before, and it was chopped. someone was editing, and felt the silence was too long.
and sothey chopped some silence, but it wastoo short now. so, they wantedto put back some silence. [laughter]okay? you follow or not?okay? so, what they did was they just recorded blank,
some digital silence. they put some digital silence,okay? then, we played. and, you can discern the real silence from the digital silence. because the real silence has an atmosphere.
the digital silence is dead. nothing in the universe is like thisdigital silence. it's a newcomer. this digital silence, okay? when you leaveeverything now, like this,you leave everything. don't attach anything. what remains here?
is it the digital silence, or another silence? feel your being. what are you perceiving? is it sound? is it form? because i didn't ask you to suppress your sense, your senses.
i said, don't beattached to them, leave everything.yeah? because senses, you canperceive, also. so, don't identify. don't say, 'i am the hearing, i am the seeing...'no, no. don't touch anything at all. what is here?
it is not a thought; go beyond thought, don't touch any thought. [friend:] i sense a presence here. [m:] ah! she says, 'i sense a presence here,' a presence here. is she correct or not?[audience:] yes.
[m:] yeah? there's a presence here, okay. is it particularlyfemale or male? no, it's notfemale or male. is it portuguese? is it christian,or hindu, or muslim? or anything like this? does it have any kind of distinguishingcharacteristics?
so, this presence which has no data, has no has no other quality, this is your self when you're conscious. this is the self of the waking state, you can say like this.
this is your dynamic being. this is the seed being. it's not a doctor,it's not a mother, it's not a wife,or a husband. it's not a master,or disciple. it's not red or blue or pink. it has no size, and no shape. let us just give
a few moments,just to acknowledge this that you have seen. does it know time? is it affected by time? everything passes in front of this. this is the very seat of perception,
where even perceivingis perceived. all knowledgereports to this. all knowing-ness spring from here. this is wherewitnessing of the existence is taking place. it is referred to
as the godly sense, or principle inside each form. it announces itself inside the body as the sense 'i am'. it knows it is. but it doesn't belong to anybody,
nor does anything belong to it. as you becomeaware of it, notice yourinner state. how empty and silent and deep. do you feel disturbed? [audience:] no.
[m:] no. do you feel alienation? do you feel separation? no. that's because you are resting insideyour own being. even to say that youare resting
inside your own being is too much. simply, you are. now, does it takeany effort? forgive me fortaking so long to answer your question. [more laughter] what is making effort? and to do what?
[q:] it's the person.[m:] yeah. [q:] identity with the person. [m:] yeah, and could we clearly... 'cause i've heard about this person. i think it's the same guy showing up all over the world, no? but i want to meet
this person. because it's only been a rumor, so far. we want to meet where is the person? what is itmade out of, the person? is it the same as this, that you...
the effortless one? is it the same as the sense of presence? the person. [q:] no.[m:] no. okay. [q:] there's a... a mixture of belief, like, really strong belief[m:] yes.
[q:] of this person or identity that wants to get the presence, somehow. [m:] yes.[q:] yeah. [m:] but the presence is there already,isn't it? [q:] yes. [m:] so, how can the person
have the presence? [q:] you tell me.[laughter] it doesn't makeany sense. [laughs] [m:] which is the greater, the presence, or the person? [q:] it's the presence,[m:] yeah. [q:] and everythingcomes from that. [m:] yeah.[q:] it's the seeing of that. [m:] oh, okay.
[q:] and at the same time, this other... [m:] where did the person come from? [q:] from the presence.[m:] yes, okay. [q:] from the source.[m:] yes. [m:] and you are? [q:] the presence.[m:] okay. [m:] and what does it want? [q:] it doesn'twant anything.
[questioner laughs] [mooji chuckles] [q:] thank you, you got me. [m:] but does the show end there, though?[laughter continues] we have to look, no? because we lookfor the person because the person wants alot of things,
and the person invited, 'please,speak for yourself.' because the presence doesn't wantanything. but we hear that person wants a lot of things. will the personplease stand up? and make a casefor yourself. what is it that's missing?
what you want? hello? oh, it's back! person's back![laughter] is there two...?how many people are living in this house? is this a singleapartment, or a shared apartment?[laughter] two 'i's or something.
[q:] why is it still, like, going on?you know this... [m:] okay, so this is what you wantto find out. first of all, very few people have hadthe chance, the opportunity, to reallyhave a sense,
or to reallyrecognize, or acknowledge, or come to a place where you are in the directexperience of presence. so, presence and you become same thing. it's the same thing.
you just have, and you are. now, when the presence disappears - please put yourhand up and say, 'the presence has gone, only the personis here now.' anytime we're here,
just goes, or vanish, noisily or quietly, and you becomeaware of it, just say, 'op, sorry, presence is gone,[laughter] and i'm the person.'okay? like that. so, we want to know
why is the person still persisting, after you cameand you looked, and you say,i asked you, is this sense of presence is here, is it shared? is it a sharedaccommodation? is it in there with something else
called a person? did you answerthis question? in this house of being, or in this house of... [q:] it seems to be mixed. [m:] mixed with? [q:] the presencewith the person. [m:] okay. what would notice this?
what would be able to notice that it's mixed? [q:] the presence inside.[m:] ... another one again now, huh? [q:] or the aware...the presence itself, the awareness. [m:] the awareness. can i... i spoke to...
i listened to yousay something. is the presence mixed? [friend:] the presence is not mixed. i just thoughtwatching, what is watching the presencefeels like intelligent space,or something. so, this is good. i went to her because
when sheanswered before, she said,'there seems to be just a sense of presence.' she didn't say, 'i think there's a senseof presence.' you were... your tone told me you are affirming, and confirming
there's a senseof presence. but when i asked the question, what is aware of presence? is there an awareness even of presence? and you say, 'actually, there seems to be something like, a kind ofan intelligence,
in which evenpresence is seen.' would that be true? let's go back again to the sense of presence. is there anything wrong in the sense of presence? we are communicating now all together. we're in the room.
close the door, please. nobody out. please answerthis question: is there anything wrong, or missing with the state of presence? you alonecan answer this question now because you don't have any textbook
in front of you. that whatyou would say? nothing. yeah. nothingis wrong with it. so, it is quite good, huh? quite...[laughter] it's quite happy. what is the environment of presence like?
how do you feel? do you feel well? or you feel...? hmm?[laughter] just presence now. so, in spite of feeling very, very well, there is even something beyond,
it seems,presence, in which evenpresence itself is perceived. at least someone in this room knows it, or sense it. then that'sbehind presence. what about in frontof presence?
what is happening behind presence, you say, 'there is a space, like a kindof intelligence. we don't know what to callthis thing.' it's not even a thing! because ispresence a thing? then even presence itself
is perceived.meaning that whatever isperceiving presence, it's even more subtle than presence, even. okay? so, let's go back in frontof presence, to what we saymust be person. because in spiteof recognizing that there is just a -
what we're using,the word presence, it doesn't have a sticker called presence on it, but the word presence seems satisfactoryfor the moment - presence. in front of presence is coming some thing calleda 'person',
scratching about. what's this personfeeling like? is it also...? is it an object? is the personan object? what is itmade out of? [friend:] dreams. [m:] dream. somebody say, 'dream.'
[friend:] thoughtsand feelings. [m:] 'feelings.' 'thoughts.' 'energy.' 'condition.' all of this,yes, seem to come together, to create the senseof a person,
sense of a person. it's comprised of thought, feeling, imagination, projection,conditioning, vibration, some person say, or energy.okay? okay. is it tangible,
as a unit, can it be caught? can you introduceyour person? [friend:] it's changeable. [m:] 'it's changeable.' [friend:] it's likea contraction. [m:] like a kindof contraction. all the thingsyou mention is what youare perceiving,
isn't it? [audience:] yes. [m:] because all the thingswe put together, we say, 'yeah,this is what comprises a person.' no? and the vibration, everything. but... so, something looks uponthe person,
studying the person, okay? that which isaware of the person, is it a person? which is greater? that whichperceives the person, or the person? which is more constant? [friend:] theperceiver. [m:] 'the perceiver,'like this.
this is calledexperience. the personwants something. what makesthe person... why doesthe person wanting something matter to you,the presence? again, you havecome to a place where you areaware of yourself
as presence. is anything attached to presence? does it connectup to something? or, how is presence? is it needinganything? [audience:] no.[m:] no. is it unhappy? can it die? [m:] you feel confident to say this?
[friend:] yes - no.[audience:] no. what is theconnection of the personwith presence? when you say 'i', what areyou indicating, the person,or the presence? [audience:] presence.[m:] presence. [m:] is that all the time? [m:] why not all the time, then?
when itfeels so good. [friend:]it is all the time. it's all the time. sometimesi don't know it, but it's all the time. it can't be...there's no other way. [m:] and, 'sometimes,i don't know it,' 'i' referring to what? please look,because
we don't have to speculate now, because we are, actually, in the experience, itself. when you are in the experience, you don't speculate.you simply share. you can simplyobserve, isn't it? what is the concern for the presence with person?
[q:] yeah, it seemsthe attention goes there, somehow. [m:] the attentiongoes there. when theattention goes there, does it mean the presencegoes there? does the presence go there? so, the presenceis even capable of observing the movement
of the attentiongoing somewhere. [m:] does it alterthe presence? [m:] okay, what's the trouble then? identification comes, and somehow, the senseof presence seems to get converted, or somehow, converted into the stateof personhood,
or something,isn't it? and it's the presencethat's believing that it's the person, for a while. so belief comes, and although belief itselfcan be perceived by the presence. it can see, 'oh, i'midentifying again.
yes, i can seestrong belief. if i can seestrong belief, i am not the belief.' so the belief, when believed in, must give... some effect happen tothe presence, whereby,it goes into
some kind of hypnosis, and gets converted into the stateof person. huh? yeah. is that absolutely? this happen? so, there is some sense of goingin and out of focus. so sometimes it feels,'i'm now the person,
and, oh no, my lifeis so terrible...' when it goesback into presence, it goes,'oh, my god! thank you,i feel so good! om namah shivaya.'[more laughter] when it goes backinto person, 'oh my.... i don't think i'm ever gonna get this. i don't thinki'm worthy enough.
i don't feel like ...'you see? like this. so, something is oscillating between the sense of person, and then, presence. that creates...? huh? 'attention.' 'attention.'okay. but the presence is able to observethe attention.
but not always. so, what practice is, is to try and keepobserving that when the habit that when the attention goes, and belief goeswith the attention, it creates a kindof drug effect
upon the presence, and the presencestarts to behave as a person. when the presence becomes self-conscious, that it is always capable of watching, okay? then, that delusion
doesn't happen. that hypnosisdoesn't happen. when the consciousness keeps on being consciousof consciousness, after a while, it doesn't have to do it anymore. and the sleep is over.
just like, when this body was... what is your name? [q:] priya.[m:] priya. when this body was born, the name priya, or any other name didn't comeon the forehead. god send you...
'i'm sending you priya.' brmm - pop!no? the body came empty, no name, and somebodythought about, 'what should wecall this one?' whatever, whatever, no? so, the namewas decided. also,
name can change, religion can change, belief can change. but there's something that cannot change. and there is something that change. body is changing; thoughts are changing;
the perceiving of thoughtschanging is there. spirituality, or the searchfor truth, begins when there isconsciousness that you can observe
withoutidentifying. and when you observe withoutidentifying, a space opens up inside, and youbegin to feel, 'whew!'very well, and very unattached. and this detachment, itself, is a great joy.
[q:] how to getto that stage, then? [m:] how to getto what stage? the stage where you are not troubled?[q:] the detachment. [m:] okay.[q:] all the time. [m:] so again, you must ask... where are you asking this question from?' from what stateare you asking?
so, you are only asking this state from the identified state. now, but you must be aware of it. otherwise, you're just taking your questions for granted. you're notusing it. when you say, you know, 'so, how can i get to that
state of presence?' but you were there just a second ago. [q:] the conscious... what you werejust talking about, the consciousnessbeing conscious of... [m:] yes. at first, it istrue to habit. the habit,
repetitive, of associatingwith the body, that, 'i am the body.' 'i am the thought.' 'i am the thinker of thoughts,' and so on. there'stwo exercises. one is that you keep saying,
'but i am not, i am not this thing.' you can look, or you can also recognize that you cannot be it. rather thansimply saying mechanically,'i am not it,' you can, actually, see that all that you see,
you're not. all that you see is phenomenal. meaning that it cannot exist independent of your perceiving of it. and keep holding on to the perceiving. stay at thisperceiving place.
just doing that, by itself, you'll find that your mind stopsworrying. no more worry comes. because everythingthat comes, you seeit comes and goes. everythingis a cloud simply coming and going.
and you're onlythe witness of the cloud; you're not a cloud. that comes from the state everything isappearing to it and going. coming and going, coming and going, like this. only when the presence becomethe person,
things become sticky. becomeperson, things become personal. and all problems are personal. that's whythe presence has no problem. you understandlike this happen? so for a while, it's the habit,
is being seen through; that you keep seeing, that'sthe habit, to just assumeyou are the person. and this unchecked habit perpetuates the conditionof delusion, you're always behaving... everyone here is consciousness;
we are all consciousness. you didn't decide to be. you are,you know, choicelesslyconsciousness. but what happened is it was notencouraged in life that we should beself-conscious in the proper way. we becamepsychologically
self-conscious, meaning that you become over-conscious of being a person. and that is a very insecure state. this is why we are not comfortable with each other. true self-consciousness is to be aware that you are the presence,
not the person, you see. so whenyou speak, 'oh yes, i'm gonna go and do this,and what i think...' and some peoplecan keep it up for a very, very long time. you know? 'and i went this,and she said this to me,
and i really didn't like itand i told her deh-deh-deh. next time i'm gonna getcha!i'm done, i'm gonna resign!' [laughter]and if you listen, you can say,this is all coming from the 'i am the body,i am the person' idea. and yet, it's same, using the same 'i'.
because i say this, god says, 'i am.' the devil, alsosays, 'i am.' the egosays, 'i am.' so, is it thesame thing? and yet, somehow, we are also using these words,'i am',
mostly to mean,'i am the body.' when your'i am' becomes 'i am consciousness' or 'i am presence,' your whole world will change. your whole way of experiencing your lifeexistence
mostly, we are speaking on the basis, 'i am the body, i am the person.' now, that you are made conscious of it, you will begin to notice your parentsare doing it, your teachersare doing it,
employers,students, everybody, children are doing it,everybody, you are doing it.we all speak from the basis of, 'i am a person.' are we obliged to speak,
'i am the body'? is it something that's unavoidable? or is it just habit? you need to find out. what is important is that there'san awareness that the sense,'i am a person' is not a fact;
it's fiction,in fact. the fact is this fictional person is perceived from the state of presence, but you're notconscious enough that you're presence, because of the habit of louder reflex,
to keep ongoing back to the position of the person. now, when you come to satsang,like this, and we are in this environment, the environment, the chargeof consciousness, is at a higher state when you are in the field
of a higher state of consciousness, automatically, your environment, internally, becomes higher in the state of consciousness. and so, you are experiencing the feeling, or the stateof presence,
much more easily. because nothing here is promoting person. and when you'renot in the space where you're promoting person, how well you feel. now, did you create this stateof presence? no,it is here,
it has always been here, it's the background. you can say like this, for the moment, it's the background state. whereby, you understand the feelingof personhood. like this,[snaps] something will go,
as you havedemonstrated, also. because you are, very clearly, in a state of presence, without any... are you makingany effort to be presence? is anybody making any effort? are you saying any mantra,
'i am presence,i am presence,' to be present? you arenaturally in a state ofpresence, isn't it? the mindat the moment is, 'rrrrrr...' 'i'm not likingthis at all.' like that, no? because its food
is 'i am the person.' the 'i am the person' mode is hungry for a bit of gossip, a little bit of chat,a bit of chit-chat, a bit of nonsense,a bit of... this type of stuff. it's a habit. it's like athlete's foot, itching, itching...
so sometimes,you have to give the minda bit of doggy food.[laughter] get back into that state. but as you become more accustomed to being in the higher state of your own self - it's not of someone else's self,
it's your own self - how well you feel, naturally. you're in the height of yourown being. you're in the himalayas of your own being. how did you do it? what exercisedid you do? what gymnasticsdid you do?
nothing at all. just you are made aware that there's a space inside you can look from, which normally you're notaccustomed to looking from. then for a while, it seems it's very difficult
to be in a state of presence. because the mind is saying, 'how can i go up there?i can't stay! aaagh!whew! have to go back into being a person,' and it feels, 'oh yes,'like, you know, 'give me another smoke.' [inhaling sound] it can't, you see?
but now, what effort are you...? you areeffortlessly in the stateof presence. then, it has been said here in this room, 'but there seemsto be a space within which even presence, itself, is perceived.
now, i wasn't expecting we would go there so quick. and yet, going there means nothing because thereis no distance. there's no distance to travel. just the awareness confirm,
'but even thestate of presence...' at a certain time, maybe at 12 o'clock tonight, or 11,or whatever time you go to bed.eh? this state ofpresence, also, would subside into deep sleep. and its world,
which comes out of the seed of consciousness, will also subside into oblivion. something isstill there, though. if you arethe state of presence, and this presence subside, it means that you're finished.
or there'ssome break in your being. if you wentto bed at 10 o'clock, wake up at 7, then for 9 hours, you don't exist. [m:] can we lookat this together now?
do we have some space for this? [m:] okay. so, let's look at whathappen then, if you go to bed at 10, see? in the waking state, you have the full awarenessof the state of presence.
the state of presence in the human kingdom is somehow... some beings are not living in the state,consciously, when i say,of conscious presence, i don't meanthat they're being consciousof presence, like work.
sometimes, it's effortless; effortlesslyself-conscious; effortlesslypresence. they're not doing anything to be presence. and some are doing a lot some have got to do mantras to kind of reach the state of presence.
so, they mayhave to speak, 'om namah shivaya,om namah shivaya, om namah shivaya,om namah shivaya.' and somehow,it lifts the consciousness,naturally, into the stateof presence. and when they are in the state of presence, even if they don't say, 'om namah shivaya,om namah shivaya,'
somehow, unconsciously, it still goes on, and they're in a state of presence. but the best is to be in the state of presence without effort. that's your natural state. just like you don't have to keepremembering
'i am priya,i am priya, i am priya.'no. you neither remember,nor forget it. it's just there. if you are doingsome complex work, and someone call, 'jennifer!' you will stilldo your work. 'priya?''yes?' but you're not thinking,'i'm priya.'
so, that feelsnatural for you. then, the fact that you areconsciousness is even morenatural than that. because without consciousnessthere to remember that you're priya, if you don't haveto make any effort to remember
you're priya, then how much effort do you have to remember to... that you are consciousness? the very factthat you exist means you areconsciousness. the very factthat you are existing means you are presence. it's just the habit
of converting or believing that the presenceis the body, and the conditioning, which gives rise to the beliefyou are a person, that seems to hide your intuitiveknowingness that you are presence. but you are presence!
or consciousness,same thing. but in deep sleep, the sense 'i am', the feeling of being and witnessing of the worldwith detachment subsides, goes into oblivion. who are you, now?
when you are in the state of presence, when i ask you, please, can youdescribe yourself as presence? what will you say? i ask you, in the state of presence, you are presence now, if i ask youto describe yourself
as presence, can you each give a separate biographyof presence? yes. do you feel you have lost your privacy now? because the personcan be private. does presence needs to be private? so the stateof presence
is here, no? can you define presence? can you saysomething of presence? i can say something. from this stateof presence, it says,'the perfume of this presence is peace,
and a natural joy, and an intuitiveknowing-ness that somethinghere is eternal. it has no beginningor ending. it has no form. this is what i callthe perfume of the presence. does the presencehave any weight or size? can we say, please? does the sense of presence
have any weight or size? do you have to speculate to know this? [m:] no, you knowit directly, isn't it? when you go to sleep, when you go to sleep, because presence somehow causes witnessing to happen, so you are observing, observing of the world
of names and forms, and different beings, and time and so on; takes place, or occurs to the presence. but the presenceis not particularly doing anything. it is the being-ness itself. alright? witnessingof the world is not there.
so even the sense of presence, which is the witness of the manifest world, that functioning also subsides. what remain? because every night, i think every one of us go there, no? we spend a lot of money
to buy the best bed in order to go to this place, where you haveno experience of world and relatives. you have no religion, you have no belief, you are not from any political party. you are not a mother or daughter. you could get married today,
honeymoon, but in this deep sleep state, you areno husband, no wife, nothing at all is there. and yet, you don't protest. nobody goes,'no! please!' 'no! i don't want to go!' 'i don't wantto stop experiencing.' nobody says this.
we go nicely, in fact. we should not haveto wish each other, 'sweet dreams.' dreams are not that sweet. and also, you don't rest if you are dreaming. total, total lights out. dead sleep, must wish people, 'dead sleep.'
nothing to report,isn't it? because not even your sense, 'i am' is there. and we say, a day is, in human measurement, 24 hours. 24 human hourswe say, we call one day. and yet nobody'sliving consciously so for about 8 hours,
you are nobody;you got no name, got no status. you could be the prime minister of your country; we are nobodyin deep sleep. yeah? and yet everyone loves this state. you enjoy sleep or not?[audience:] yes.
and yet whoare you in sleep? [q:] nobody. [m:] so therefore you enjoy being nothing, isn't it? [m:] now a sage is a one who enjoys being nothing when they'reawake, also. you only enjoy being nothing when you are in deep sleep. but if somebody tells you in your waking state,
'you are nothing,' you want to fight them, isn't it? because in the waking state you wantto be something. so the best thing is to appearto be something, yet inwardly,to be nothing. the best of both worlds, because if you tellanyone in the world,
you're not gonnago very far there, see. [laughter][m:] okay? because everybodyjust want to be something. so you don't have to put yourself into difficulty. you can say,'what you do?' and say,'i am a doctor, and so and so.''what do you do?' 'yes, i am so and so, also.' because that keep them happy.
but inside, you stay as? [audience:] nothing.[m:] nothing. and it is not something that you are speculating, also, because now, you directly experience. someone in sangha say, 'thank you, for allowing me to be nothing.' when you are something,
you have to keep it up. one time one woman, she says, 'oh mooji baba, i love to see you because when i talk with you, you always sympathize.' now if i was to accept this, every time she comes to talk to me, i have to sympathize.
and that's a pressurei don't want to keep up. yeah? just to acceptthis compliment, ahh? 'you always understand.' i say, sometimesi don't understand. [laughter][m:] yeah, yeah. 'you always are on my side.' no, no, no, no,sometimes i am not on your side! what you wantto do to accept,
oh yes, you know,well, you know i am always on your side. then you alwayshave to be something. so the one whowants to be nothing, they call him wise. was that onethey call socrates? he says,'i know nothing.' the one knows nothing.
just like in deep sleep, i know nothing. they call himwisest man, wise man. why they call someone who admitsthey know nothing, wise? therefore, the onewho call socrates wise, must themself be wise.
they must know,'listen, you don't know it,so you are wise.' well you must be wiseto know that, isn't it? and thenthe whole world accept that socrates is wisefor knowing nothing, so they mustalso be wise, isn't it? or, we allpretending by that time, i don't know. 'they say he knows nothing
and that means wise, so...'like this. [friend:] most peopledon't know the guy. [m:] i don't thinkanybody here does. [f:] in the normal world,nobody knows socrates. if i say 'socrates',they go, 'who?' [m:] yes. do you know him? [f:] nobody, eh? [m:] i don't know him. i never met the guy.
this whole satsanghas been about you. this is what hastriggered all of this. it's been worthit or not so far? [m:] that's very good. the direct introductionto your own self. if you say, you know, oh, you write a biography of yourselfor something;
all this information. and that allthis information is true, this is what you are. or what you havediscovered here today in this moment, this is what you are; which one will you choose? [audience:]this one. now... [m:] huh?
now. which one will youshow your boss? we have to be smart,we are not stupid. you show himthe other one, no? you show himthe other one, but this oneyou keep yourself. because in being nothing, it doesn't meanthat you perform less. in fact,sometimes
you perform much more, much better, because you'renot so attached. you're not working for reputation. you go to the bank, and you talk to thebank clerk at the window, and you talk about,and she says, 'well, we give this much.' and, 'here, we will give you that.' and talk about,
you know, as though it's her money, but this is not her money personally at all. you see?in the same way we speak, 'i did this andi am doing that,' but inside you know, it's not quite so. this is why, you will find amongst many people
who have reached a certain stage of awakening, they can tell you, you know, 'i am, in a way, i'm sharing, but i'm not sharing. i'm giving,but not giving. something appearsto be giving,
but inside,behind this there's neithergiving nor receiving.' it's much more profound than the logical mind can admit. because whenwe live as a person we're livingin only one dimension. but when you'reaware of yourself, you understandwhat it means to be a person,
where we'respeaking from. from the ideayou have of who you are; that's whatthe person is. the idea you presentlyhave of who you are, and these ideas are changing. but somethingis unchanging. now you beginto be aware of what isunchanging.
when you're aware of what is unchanging, and yet you are awareof what is changing; and you knowthe unchanging and your selfas the same; then you can allowthe changeful to be. when you putso much effort in the changeful; we are always makingunreasonable attempts to try and prevent change,
at certain point. you see? and then youare not in synchronicity with the world's unfolding. when you've found your stability, from there you canallow the world to move in its dynamic spontaneity, without needing to prevent
or to get in the way. has anyone lost presence since we've been talking? has presence departed somewhere? [friend:] no. [m:] here? somebody said, 'yes'? where? who?which one? [f:] here, it just went... [m:] the presence went?[f:] yeah.
[m:] so the absence is speaking? [f:] no![laughter] [f:] no, the presence is speaking. [m:] the presence?[f:] is speaking. [m:] is speaking, yes, yes. the presence can be without the person, but the person cannot be without the presence. please stopand see
if this is true. the personis the constant within the waking state. the presenceis the constant relative to the person; the person is the variable. it comes in and outof the picture. underlying the person is the presence.
the presence can bewithout the person, but the person cannot be without the presence. your self is like space; our mind is like wind. the wind needs space to move about. the wind seems restless. the wind moves,
but the space does not move. the space can be without the wind, but the wind cannot be without space. judge which is the greater; stay as the greater. you can never say you are not. you can only sayyou are not such-and-such-a-thing,
but you cannot say you are not. because, in order to say, 'i am not,' i must be there to say, 'i am not.' therefore, the sense 'i am', it is complete,relative to the person. the person says many things: 'i am this, i am that; i want this, i want that; i did this, i did that,' and so on.
the presence is constant, relative to the person. now, i gave a picture that i saw some time ago, and i often refer to this picture. i saw a picture of a bird, two birds are in a tree, one of them is making a nest, busy, flying off,
bringing things,making a nest, busy. above this bird, on another branch, is another bird that's just looking. there's a bird in a treebuilding a nest. it's active; it's doing something. above it,on another branch is another birdthat's just looking.
it's not doing anything. the active bird is the mind,is the person. it's intention, desire, attachment. above is the bird that's not doing anything. this is the presence.
i am only talking about aspects of one thing. the active birdthat's moving about is our dynamic activity. the passive birdis the state of presence, from where witnessing of the activityis taking place. are we aware of this, or not? [audience:]yes.
[m:] just like you can feel the sense of a headache coming and getting strongerand then going and you know you're not the headache at any point, so you experiencefeelings and emotions coming and going, knowing you're not them. it is only when we believe,
'i am the body. i am this particular body and the conditioningthat arose for this body. when i believe this, i can believe other conditioning that come on top of this, easily.' when you become aware of the sense of presence,
that it simply is, it's not on the wayto somewhere. feel this now, like a vastness, a silence. it's much bigger than your body. you are not something that's stuffed inside this body, as far as your fingertips
and as high as your head. from the perspective of presence, or consciousness, you can say, 'i am in the body,' but you can also say, 'the body is in me.' in fact, all bodiesare in me; everything i seeis in me, as consciousness.
but if i believei am only the body, i feel, well, you know, only what i can see, i can see, but i am always apart. everything appears inside consciousness. just like a movie is watched only on the screen on which it's projected.
beyond the screen,it is not. in the same way, we are perceiving on the screen of consciousness. the difference is that this is athree-dimensional screen in which we also play a part as this person moving in it. at a certain point,
you are able to perceive without the identity or the belief that you are a person. there's only functioning. now, it may sound a bit cold, because we feel that the person brings the heat and passion to something, but as you become aware
of presence again - please do that now - is presence cold? [audience:] no.[m:] no, you see? so, is it... do you give anything to an experience by being personal? and
is an experience less by being presence? does it benefit by being personal, in your experiencing? [audience:] no.[mooji:] yes, so, the same thing has happened, the same function: the sight and the sensesare functioning
in front of presence just as it appears to be functioning in front of the person,isn't it? but experience is different. the person experience and is also capable of observing, but the difference is the person is observing
with self-interest. the presence merely observes. it wants nothing. it lacks nothing. it wants nothingbecause it lacks nothing. it is a state of completeness. can you verify this for yourself, or not? [mooji:] thank you.this is called direct experience.
i am not asking you to believe something,isn't it? but you can see now from your own direct self, how it feels for you, and you can speak for yourself, not from what you have read from a book. you are seeing now and you're corresponding with life
in real-time with the universe. you don't have to go to the past to answer any questioni am speaking, because the consciousness, unlike the person, the consciousness does not rely on past. the person is obsessed with past.
it is always bringing things back from memory, from past, '...and you said this last week, and you said you would do this.' the presence does not need any of this, because it is the complete state. can you see?can you verify, or not? [m:] very good. take a few seconds again and just simply...[mooji takes a deep breath]
marinating in your own presence. neither doing nor undoing. nothing to change, or to fix, or to heal. nowhere to go. nowhere to leave. nothing to become,
or un-become. beyond need. beyond desire. beyond fear. not waiting. not needing next, nor past. not supported by any concept. not affected by any concept.
pure awareness. [long silence] now there is a force, or a tendency inside the presence,or the consciousness, that has a habit to go back to the person. to relate from the person.
and to hold your attention on trivial things. it has a tendencyto remember wrongs being done to you: things from childhood, injustices, and all of these things. but, it does not serve your truth. it only keeps you feeling personal.
are you awareof this tendency? [audience:] yes.[m:] yes. okay, don't worry, they're there from habit; you simply keep acknowledging the presence, and that the person is a construct.
the person, the person comes and goes. the person is the needy self. presence is complete and whole. you're always looking from the person. the person is the greater, [correction] the presence is the greater, the person is the lesser!
again, the presence is the greater. it is the constantrelative to the person, which is coming in and out and is only an apparition, only a kind of ghost. now, you're aware now of the state of presence. the presence cannot be sick. it cannot get better.
it does not havegood days or bad days. it is always perfect. can you confirm for yourself? so, for first time for many people, you can speak something from your own heart, from your own self. without relying
on something from the past, what somebody else have said, what's something that you believe; you can speak directly from the state of presence. it is greater than any theory, than any thesis, than any speculation. it is your immediate
and direct experience. there's not a lot you need to know, in fact. there is studied knowledge, and there is intuitive and spontaneous knowledge. as you stay with the sense of presence, your life will come into a flow of spontaneity more, where you don't have to be
strategizing your existence. your intuitive powers will rise up. you'll be more conversing with life intuitively and energetically. more than always mentally. mentally has its own role to play. but, by itself,is inadequate
for a complete life. you can see this. it's not thatyou have to now practice many things, and keepmany things going. you will see that, if something is needed, it comes into play at the appropriate time.
all you do is keep staying in the position of presence. your actions will become more space inside. now as you look from presence, do you feel any claustrophobia at all? [audience:] no.[mooji:] no. always it is space. there's a spaciousness there.
the personhood state is quite contracting. it's always tight, you see? one of ourmodern diseases is a lack of inner space. but it's only because we're living life too personally.
from the state of presence you're not living life personally. the person is only a mask that is worn for a short time by the state of presence. the mask is not what the presence is. now you're in
your inner spaciousness. even this spaciousness is not quite inner; its got no dimension. inner,outer, it's beyond this,in fact. don't give this to your mind. don't try to capture with your mind;
there's nothing you need to capture. you are one with the vibrationof being, the vibration of presence. you are movinginto a state more of holiness, than of personhood. you will naturallyknow this thing.
you'll feel lighter. you may have a feelingyou know nothing. this is a very healthystate of being. do not be afraid. if a thing needs to be known, it will manifestquite spontaneously. you will notice this. if it doesn't manifest, simply keep quiet.
[chuckling] you don't have to know everything. i'm very pleased with the way this time has gone today. that we have focused in such a simple way. we have not picked up any domestic questions.
we have not talked about...[laughter] have you noticed? and, we have not talked about, 'oh, this thing,'and lots of problems simply focusing on the sense of being. we didn't go somewhere to get the being; we didn't rent itfrom somewhere.
it is always here. from within your own self, without turningto the left, or to the right, up or down. you are in direct oneness with yourself. it is not merely belief; it is yourimmediate
recognition. your direct recognition. not one thingrecognizing another thing; self-recognition. and sometimesi refer to it as a non-phenomenal recognition, which means that it's notrecognizing an object, it's only the self,self-aware.
spiritual knowledge is not about amassing lofty spiritual or philosophical concepts. amazingly, it's not about concepts. so maybe the word 'knowledge' is not the true word.
or maybe, in this context, it's the only true word. to know means to be. where knowing and being are the same. if knowing and being are not the same, if knowledge and beingness
is not the same, knowledge itself is only phenomenal. it's only information. you are more than information. you are not information. spirit. being. this is true
for everyone: one religion doesn't have it more than another. one peopledon't have it in fact, nobody has it. it has you. but higher than that there is no you personally, it is just
a working title, you as person. what we areis presence, appearing; the oneappearing as many. the many recognizing it is one. the unique fragrance of each person,you can say,
each form; that uniquenessdoes not interfere with the oneness of being. in fact, it only sings its magnificence that even on one flower each petal is unique. so consciousness in each form
expresses uniquely, yet one common source. consciousness is our language and our being. consciousness conversing with consciousness about consciousness. can we sit with this for just amoment or two?
notice that as we are sitting here, wherever you find yourself, your natural state, knowingness, is simply that of existence: i exist. no effort needs to be made, no striving, simply,
you are. more informationis not required. this sense,'i am', is not information. notice thatyou're not waiting. nothing, no event or object, or action, can make you more
you. though the mindseems to possess or have the sense of time, of past, present and future, you, who witness mind, are timeless, beyond all categories; subtler than attention,
subtler than belief, subtler than all concepts, subtler than space even, for space isperceived in you. nothing defines your being, nor confine it. you're not on a journey; you're simply here.
you're not waiting, not expecting, not controlling, not receiving, not giving. you're not being entertained. you're not seeking or pursuing; simply you are.
and there's no pressure in this. notice this. no anxiety. no drama. there's no threat. there is no threat. there's nothingto protect or defend. totally empty.
silent. you are not imagining this. there's no needto imagine anything at all, nor to move your mind. you are not in a state of stress. you're not holding anything together; there is no need. effortless,
complete. you're not in a state of transformation. you simply are. acknowledge this. recognize this. nothing is against you. mind is not your enemy. mind is not your friend. you're neither sociable
nor unsociable. unmixed presence, timelessly complete. you're not in searchof any experience. like space you are everywhere. you have no color nor design. no shape, nor size.
this body is merely a vessel, a house, a temple, that you reside for a time. but you arethe imperishable, the unbound. this not a compliment. a reminder. you're not a work in progress.
stay as awareness. there's no strain, there's no suffering, except that which is offered through your mind when you identify personally. as pure awareness, there's nothingto give up or to change.
there never was. nothing sticks to you. for this you must descendinto the state of personhood. every sensation, every thought,every feeling is merelylike a cloud that's floating in the infinite expanse
of space. you're not your mind nor your thinking. neither are you offended by them. let things come and go as they will. you cannot go because you never came. like space,
awareness is everywhere. remember and know this deep insideyour being. there's no end for truth. you're neither a good story nor a bad story. all things come and go. let themcome and go.
you're the witness,only, of them. how you felt yesterday, and how you feel today, has got nothing to do with what you are. feelings come and go as does everything else. remember this. observe this.
do not attempt to define yourself, because to define is to confine that which isever free. happiness is your nature, not somethingyou should find. it is what you are. peace also is your perfume,
joy, love. it seems as though we forgot this. they don't returnmerely by remembering, but by recognizing. om namah shivaya. thank you.om. [audience:] thank you. [m:] okay. to close for this part
of the satsang, will somebody come? we have someone to come? we're going to have some music just for a few minutes. thank you . the name priya is really the beloved,you know? all this was about the beloved.
we are both the beloved and the lover. [q:] thank you.[m:] very good. so at the end of this bhajan, we will just have a break for 15 minutes,take some chai, and those of you whofeel the need to leave, you can leave.
we will come back, and the second partof satsang today is usually offered up for reading throughsome of the mails that are sent each week, each day, to myself, and it's a beautiful time for looking throughand responding to some of these mailsand everybody is welcome to come for this.
[music][singing] [m:] om sri sat guru ramana ki![audience:] jai! [m:] papaji ki![a:] jai! [m:] sri buddha ki![a:] jai! [m:] sri yogi ramsuratkumar ki! [a:] jai! [m:] sri christ ki! [a:] jai! [m:] sri anandamayi ma ki! [a:] jai! [m:] sahaja ki [a:] jai! [audience:] sri moojiji ki jai!
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