>> haven't we? that is something we always say to our children. and i believe when they leave our homes they will be morally and legally obligated to do those things. you passing this guideline will help them learn that now,
and the parents will rise to the occasion, because they will have to. they will have to learn those same lessons that you are teaching your children, and i hope that is a part of your plan. most importantly,
listen to the children. they are committing suicide. they are not getting a good education, and they are living in fear at school while they are supposed to be learning. listen to them. thank you. >> thank you for being here.
>> michelle trasber? michelle trasber? pastor leonard jackson? john howfu? howfu-- h-o-w-f-u? olga patrick? bill sage? >> right here. >> good afternoon, board.
it's a pleasure to be here with you. i wish it was under different circumstances. a little of my history: i'm a founder of constituting michigan, if you are familiar with the pledge of allegiance bill,
i wrote it. that passed. and i'm an ex-commissioner. i'm on two boards-- community mental health is one of them. i'm also on the regional community mental health board. i have read legislation.
i have written resolutions. frankly, this is a bad policy, you guys. there is a simple solution to this. and the simple solution is transgender bathrooms. not transgender, but unisex bathrooms.
that is a simple solution to this debate. now, it is not this board's responsibility to take parental rights away, because that's exactly what this policy does. in your heart, if you look deep,
you are going to know that. you already do know that, actually, because natural law is telling you that right now. you have heard testimony from many young children with no life experience. i have had a lot of it. and i have friends
that are transgender. do you think i judge them because they are transgender? one is a american legion post leader, okay, my friend. i play in bands. a buddy of mine named jason shows up as a woman and asked me to call him miranda.
you know, it took me two months to actually call him miranda, and he got mad at me for calling him jason. but i don't recall him going into any bathroom anywhere and getting beat up because he is transgender. bullying is bullying.
i'm short. you want to see somebody who has been bullied? you are looking at him right now. in high school, i was probably bullied at least once a month. now are you going to come up with policies
for short people? you know, you can't. you can't appease everybody. and again, it's a simple solution. i'll give you an example, and this is the danger-- you opening up many ramifications.
right now you are talking about superseding parental rights. you can't do that. it's unconstitutional and it's not in your room of governance. governance is here to protect the inalienable rights
of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for us-- we, the people of america. and once you work outside of those parameters, you are no longer working under those rules of governance,
natural law. natural law comes from god, as i am a christian. i was called a christian creature today downstairs-- do you know that? so where is the hate? i don't know if it was one of these kids that were here
today, but i'm going to repeat it again, they have no life experience. now, you've heard one lady with stats that told you that 80% of these boys that are transgender go back to being boys again. now that being said,
i'm going to make a comment. when i was young i used to wear a mustache just like this. it was fake. i used to get into all of the bars when i was 15, 16, 17, 18 years old. the age was 21 down in
indianapolis, indiana. i got in anywhere i wanted. so you know why i did that? because i was a predator for women. now, you open up that gate to all of these boys in high school as we speak and you will end up with legal
ramifications from it, and it is on your shoulders. because if any of these girls get raped in the locker room, it's on your shoulders. and as a board member, don't do it. >> david beal? david beal?
clinton eckles? >> hold on, he's coming. so i'm sorry, what is your name? >> clinton eckles. >> thank you. >> hi, i come to you today as a christian father and heterosexual male
that happens to be very saddened by the stories that i have heard about abuse and bullying toward lgbtq students and adults, as well, and i'm very sorry for that. i also support lgbtq students in the sense that they are
dearly loved by god, and they ought to be respected as individuals and as citizens in our community. i also happen, though, to strongly disagree with your proposal, and i think there is a way that you can come up
with a proposal that constrains bullying, accommodates all people, all walks of life, so that they can coexist, but without coercion. right now, what you have is not right and wrong being debated, but rivalries
asserting themselves, and when there are asserting themselves, there is always loss. and i would appreciate it if you would come up with a policy that does not allow a person to assert a right that disrespects
another individual. i know that's difficult, but i think it can be done. i'm also concerned about a leap into completely subjective relativism that empowers students to reject truth and command others to conform to their perceived
unrealities. if a person perceived he was superman, would you urge him to fly off of a tall building? certainly not. is two plus two still going to equal four in our schools? second of all, what state law exists that permits this board
to usurp a parent's lead teaching and guidance of his children? thirdly, your proposal places local school boards-- and by the way, the word option, or optional has been used many times. optional does not necessarily
mean it is not coercive and influential. your proposal places local school boards, superintendents, principals, and teachers into the crossfire of the cultural war. who now decides how far these shoulds that you have written
should be followed? and when a local superintendent, a man that i dearly love in my local school system, and a school board is sued for following or ignoring your guidelines, where will you be?
your reckless document abandons the very people you should represent. i disagree with the definition of gender identity as being a construct of an individual's internal compass, and deeply psychological knowledge of his personal gender regardless
of sex assigned at birth. i happen to believe that man is made wonderfully by god by his creator. i hope i won't be called a hater because i disagree with others who believe otherwise. you have opened the door for mass exodus of students from
the public school system, and mass lawsuits by playing god, scientist, psychologist, policeman, moralist and relativist. where is your research that applies to the fears and dangers felt by individuals that see a person that does
not look like their biological sex walk into a bathroom? you quote research from the other side. where is your research from even ten heterosexual, cisgender individuals? i would pray to you that the idea of empowering a
student should not usurp what authorities have already been established to put in place with parents. you quote two pieces of research on the premise of unsafe learning environments, but where is your research about what the learning--
that new environment will do to other heterosexual students? i'll just simply end with this: how can any christian, jewish, moral, muslim, or other religious person who holds the belief that god assigns a person gender in the womb and believes that god
desires that person to express their sexuality accordingly-- how can that person be seen under the language of your proposal as not a discriminator or as a hater? how are they going to be respected as simply a person who holds a deeply held
religious conviction? a safe solution exists in the unisex bathrooms option. what could be more safe than something that offers complete privacy? why the endangerment in the name of safety and why ignore parental rights?
i'm against the bill. my wife and i will have to make our own decision about what we will do with our daughter in the coming years, because she is in the public school system. >> adam ray? adam ray?
jerry styke? susan butler? kyla boyse-- b-o-y-s-e? >> she is coming. >> good afternoon. >> i'm here as a pediatric nurse practitioner, a parent of public school kids, and a member of the community.
and in those capacities i have seen firsthand the importance of a supportive environment for lgbtqia kids. i have seen how the robust accommodations and support that are offered at the university of michigan can support learning and safety
and that adjustment to college life. and i urge you to bring that enlightened approach to michigan public schools, by adopting these evidence-based, good sense, and voluntary guidelines. i thank you for your work on
this topic and thank you for hearing from me. >> extra credit. thank you for being here. >> kathleen biker? michelle dooling? jane kangus? >> coming. >> i'll give up a minute of my
time if y'all want to standing up and take a break. [ laughter ] >> i'm speaking as a christian grandmother of five students that are in michigan schools. i wish to express my opposition to your policy of the mixed-gender bathrooms
and shower facilities in our tax-payer supported schools. this is a slap in the face to all of our christian values as expressed in god's word. where is the protection of our family values and the logical moral modesty for our children?
i don't believe in bullying of any student for anything should be allowed. we have always had girls bathrooms for biologically built girls and boys bathrooms for biologically built boys, based on our christian values, and now, our culture has
created a third group of the mixed gender, and they need their own facilities that should be separate from the boys and girls so that there will be no bullying in the bathrooms or sexual assaults of any kind.
we could also have separate facility-- a unisex facility for one person at a time-- would also solve that problem. i don't see how your policy in this area will improve the whole atmosphere of the students learning the basic three rs that is your primary
mandate to do, so that more students can graduate prepared to make a living and to contribute to our country. >> glenn kangus. >> i'll try to be quick. i think basically i agree with the fella five people ago-- the short guy who got beat up.
i think we should all have compassion, you know, how you teach compassion and how you legislate that-- we should all have love and compassion for every student. i think that's a must. we have to agree on that. but i think that somehow--
somehow there is-- so i agree with the tenants of the great lakes justice center, their publication that i'm sure you have in your hands. i think that how you promote compassion is a difficult one, but i think partly-- you know, and this whole
issue of confusion, gender confusion-- i don't know what to say about that. you know, you have people on one hand. you have people on the other hand, and how you-- how you have compassion
and acknowledge the-- the confusion that's there, you know, how you deal with that, i don't know. but i think that his-- the gentleman's comments and several other people's comments about the single
occupancy, unisex bathrooms has to be one solution. because i don't think anybody-- i don't think anybody makes the argument that-- that gay students are assaulting other students. i think the issue that people
are afraid of is that there are going to be men-- primarily men, i would think-- that are going to take advantage of this-- of bathrooms, you know, and you are going to find young women assaulted. let's see-- so i think that--
i think that-- again, i'm totally against your proposal. i think that it's careless at a lot of different levels. and there are a lot of areas that have to be examined that can't be dealt with. now to end, i think--
i come from-- i-- i'm a machine tool designer, or a retired machine tool designer, and i don't know how you approach it, but i think you have to-- like-- like i do as a photographer, i think you have to-- and like i do in machine tool design,
i try to get everybody's input, which is what you're doing here, and then i try to think outside of the box, think outside of my own way of doing it, and think how i can resolve this issue, maybe in a way that hasn't been
discussed here, but-- you know, i think we're all in agreement-- we don't want any-- we don't want anybody to be beat up. we don't want anybody to be bullied. we want everybody to
experience love and compassion in our school system. >> amanda niven? matthew shepard? and he will be followed by kristen sheridan. >> hello and thank you. i'm matthew shepard, i'm a member of the u.s.
taxpayer party here in michigan, and secretary at that. just this past week, we passed a resolution and it goes as follows: "resolution in opposition to sbe lgbtq student proposal adopted april 30th, 2016. as michigan state board of
education (sbe) is considering to implement a policy to favor self-identified lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and/or questioning (lgbtq) students and use of gender-specific facilities in public schools, and whereas the number
of lgbtq students is relatively small in relation to the general population, and whereas sbe is placing an undue burden in creating a new policy to accommodate lgbtq students and the use of long-standing behavior and use of public facilities,
and whereas ustpm--" that's u.s. taxpayer party of michigan-- "finds the lgbtq sexual behavior dangerous, unhealthy, and immoral, and whereas the michigan constitution requires the teaching of religion,
morality and knowledge, therefore--" as i said, the constitution requires our educational system to teach these, not lgbtq. "be it resolved that ustpm stands in opposition to embracing the adoption of this policy in schools and calls
for the resignation of sbe members who support the proposed policy. end of resolution." my own personal standing: i'm over 20-- 20 years of decorated service. yes, we had lgbtq members in our military,
but we did not specify use of special accommodations just so they could have their facilities taken care of and necessary actions of their bowels or urinary system exposed. this is a drastic measure that you are considering.
every measure that has come down from the obama administration has been detrimental to this nation, and i would extremely hope that you consider all, not just the small portion of behavior that supports your proposed legislation.
>> kristen sheridan? stella shenaquit? okay, is shane shenaquit here? >> yes. >> hi. >> i sit in front of you as a parent. i identify as female, i present as female.
when you get down to it, nobody can see under my clothes. you don't know what bathroom i should use. nobody knows what bathroom i should use, because it's only my business. it's not anybody else's
business. when my child came to me and told me he was transgender, i thought a lot of things. i didn't understand. i was hurt. i took it as a personal affront. i wondered where i had
gone wrong. and i did seek psychiatric services for my child. and guess what-- the therapist told me, "your child is not confused, is not seeking attention, is not going through a phase, is not mentally ill,
and did not choose to be this way. this child is not acting out a lifestyle. your child is transgender. you have a son." and here we are, many months down that road, and i'm still struggling
from time to time. it's not easy on parent. it's not easy on child. i'm grateful to have access to a supportive medical team to guide us. we live in a supportive school district. our superintendent has been
wonderful and understanding, and he works with us to ensure that the school is an inclusive environment. he came with us here today in support. but he is learning, too. shane is not the only lgbt student in our school, and not
the only transgender student. our school lost a member of the lgbt student community to suicide in february. i didn't know the student or the student's family. i don't know his reasons, but i know that when he graduated in 2014,
our school was not as supportive as it is now. our community grieves this loss, and i can't fathom the weight of the loss his mother carries. i refuse to consider the possibility that i can ever understand what his mother
has to deal with. i don't care what anybody says-- i am not going to identify my child in the morgue. and if you can't understand that, and you are worried about who has what in their pants,
you need to seek some help yourself. i want to address some concerns that i heard. people that are convinced that boys will act like a girl to go into the girl's room, please raise your sons to know that is an inappropriate
behavior and they should don't that. those of you determined to keep these unknown sexual predators out of the girl's room where your daughters are, i want to know why it is okay to leave them in the boys room with your sons.
at least acknowledge that there are female predators, that there are same sex predators, that there are heterosexual predators, and that there are cisgender predators. and stop hiding your fear of men behind the imaginary fear
of the transgender student. you are so worried about keeping men out of the girls room you fail to realize you are putting them back into the girls room-- boys like shane, who, for the most part, is accepted as he presents--
if shane returns to the girls room, they are not going to be happy to see him there. and how will you ensure these kids are in the right bathrooms? are we going to employ a panty checker at every bathroom
door? because that includes everybody's kids. it doesn't include the kids that you think is obviously transgender only. your little girls that you are so worried about, they are going to have their
panties checked, too. make no mistake. that's obviously not as good a plan as the one that the state board has considered today. a lot of people pee where they are comfortable. private bathrooms should be available for those who
want them. but they should not be the only option. my gender is not neutral. your gender is not neutral. not too many people are. >> shane shenaquit. >> my name is shane, and i'm a transgender freshman
at adrian high school, and i'm glad i'm able to speak here. in an ideal world, all children would tell their parents if they are struggling with something. unfortunately, we live in a world where there are adults
in our lives who not only refuse to accept or support their child, but may even become abusive if the child were to share that they are gay, they are lesbian, bisexual, or transgender. i'm lucky to have a really supportive home environment,
medical environment, and therapeutic team. but because some of us do not, it's even more important to have a supportive allowing students to change their name on informal records and request to be addressed by the appropriate pronouns in
the absence of parental knowledge isn't keeping things from the parents. it isn't about taking over the parental role. it is about providing the student who may have no other source of support one safe place to land.
when i first came out to my choir teacher and he was open and accepting, i felt incredibly confident and so much more comfortable in my own skin. when somebody addresses me as shane, or he, or sir, my self-esteem and mood
shoot through the roof. who wouldn't want a kid to feel good about themselves, to experience euphoria like i did? most people are comfortable with the name they were given at birth. they don't give it
a second thought. being addressed by my female birth name is like the noise a fork makes on a plate-- it's all wrong. i have an unusual last name. i have only been in the school system for 18 months, and most people do not know
what my birth name is. but as soon as it is read over the pa to the whole class with my last name attached, it starts. people find a new wound to pick at, something to hang over my head and constantly remind me of whenever
they please. it makes me miserable. why is this okay? kids pick on-- kids pick on me, discuss my genitals, my birth name, in hopes of getting a rise out of me. they don't go over the edge
enough to be considered bullying, but they push and push in hopes that i will react. it gets extreme, it gets vulgar, and i don't always feel safe. trust me when i tell you i want in and out as quickly
as possible. i have five minutes between classes, and no interest in spending as much time in the bathroom. it shouldn't be a big deal: boys use the boys room, and girls use the girls room. i use the boys room.
we're here to learn, not to harass and discriminate. this whole thing is a version of the colored and white drinking fountains in the '50s. being born brown or being born transgender isn't something that anyone can change.
we'll be fine. in reality, most kids are much more open and accepting of differences than their parents. if your kids aren't comfortable, it's because they weren't taught to love each other despite differences.
teach your kids. in 30 years we will look back at this time as much as we look at the '50s and wonder how we forced an entire segment of our citizenry to use different bathrooms over fear and ignorance. let michigan be on the right
side of history. >> shauna daniels. >> yeah, she's coming, and kathy garnot will follow shauna. >> hi, i'm shauna daniels. i'm not with an organization, i'm just a mother coming from monroe, michigan.
and i heard recently that this meeting was going to happen. and i thought a lot of different ways on it. i thought i would just come to listen to what everybody had to say about it. last night, i told my daughters
that i was going to lansing, so dad had to get up because he sleeps in, because he works nights. and my older daughter is 11 and she has autism. and she said, "you're going to lansing? i want to go."
she went with her class. and i said, "well, you have school, so you have got to go there." and the last question was, "why are you going?" and i said, "i'm going because they are talking about making a new rule where the boys can
come into girls bathrooms, the girls into boys bathrooms." "well, i don't like that idea." and when she made that comment to me, it was when-- i'm not normally the type of person to get up and talk, but i thought about it
and thought that she can't be her own voice, so i'll have to her voice for her, and she was very uncomfortable with that decision. so i'm here for-- for that, because i don't think it is right to make a right for
someone else that violates someone else's right. and her right as my daughter is to go into a bathroom where she feels comfortable also, just like everyone, where the fact is, the unisex bathroom is a great idea.
then everybody has their own, and they can go wherever they want to. short story, when she was five and a half, she decided-- with autism, this happens a lot-- she decided that she was a dog for about sixth months.
she crawled on the floor like a dog, she-- that was just what she did. and the doctor said, "it's normal, let her do it." and i did. but i did not go and buy her dog food. i fed her regular food.
i didn't buy a dog house. she slept in her bed, and i didn't go to the school and tell them to allow her to go outside to pee, but she wanted to. so that's basically all i wanted to say. i wanted to stand up
for the girls who want to go into a bathroom with other biological girls, and it's okay to have a third bathroom. >> kathy garnot, and carol brown is on deck. >> good job on my name-- kathy garnot.
i'm from alto, michigan, which is near grand rapids, in case you don't know. i appreciate you waiting for so long to hear all of us speak, as is our right in michigan to have our voice heard. i appreciate the work
that you do, too. i'm here against the guidelines proposed. i believe it's too controversial. the beauty of the u.s. history is we were founded on the judeo-christian beliefs and morals founded
in the bible offered by god himself. he is the source of truth guidelines should be based on truth. regarding some of the guidelines being discussed today, i want to point to the bible--
old testament, first book, genesis chapter 19. it tells the true story of sodom and gomorrah. sodom is the root word of sodomy-- a negative term which refers, in part, to illicit sex relations man to man.
the cities of sodom and gomorrah were destroyed by god for their sexual sins. next, in the new testament, book of romans, chapter 1 clearly lays out roles for human behavior which include not leaving the natural use of men and women.
this is god's standard of right and wrong not human personal opinion. in your proposal, there are references made to child sex at birth. the child's sex is biological, and not societal. children should not be allowed
to choose to do something like change names or sexual identity without parental consent. schools should not bypass public bathroom use is hard enough because of lack of privacy, with stalls that have
lots of peek-a-boo opportunities. it would be even harder with mixed use. also, not just children use school bathrooms-- adults use them too. a possible compromise would be to have all children use
completely private bathrooms and locker rooms with no look-overs, look-unders, or look-through-the-crack school bathrooms and locker rooms would have to be completely revamped to accomplish this. it's-- the guidelines won't
solve the problems you are trying to address. i'm praying for god to guide your actions for the future and moral health of our state and my grandchildren. >> carol brown? and donna secor pennington would be next.
>> live in lapeer. i'm a mom, grandmother. my children already have gone through the public schools, so it's really not affecting me in that capacity. however, i do have two grandchildren to consider. to me, this is not about not
supporting the lgbtq students. we all love one another, have compassion for everyone, like you should. what i find wrong with this guidance is it takes away the parental consent over their children, their rights, and also the rights of the local
school board decision making, and it goes against the constitution. and we heard testimony way, many hours ago from senator casperson that there has been successful outcomes with the guidelines, laws that are already in place--
that these issues have come up and they have solved some. i would like you to reconsider this guidance. take into account everything everyone is saying, and i think that unisex bathroom is a good choice,
a right choice. what i would like from this board in between now and august when you make up your minds-- i want to know-- because i don't know, and i don't know where to go to find out what specific
organizations or agencies have initiated this? or is it your own initiation everybody put into it? so if you would please address that online sometime, i would appreciate that. >> donna secor pennington. and lisa winchell-caldwell
will be next. >> good evening. >> that's not funny when you say that. >> the michigan association of school social workers stands firmly in support of the proposed state board of education statement
of guidance that we are considering today. this policy was carefully developed by a large and varied group of educational stakeholders, including massw, and i can report there was very strong consensus on the contents of the statement.
we all know that sustainable and effective change requires readiness, and the advisory nature of the statement affords school districts the flexibility to shape policies that meet their own needs based on their own timelines.
the importance of these guidelines for school districts is underscored by the reality that in a typical class of 30 students, 8 students are directly impacted by the gender nonconforming, or nonconforming sexual orientation of self,
of one or more siblings, or one or both parents, so certainly an issue that needs to be recognized. research suggests that teachers overwhelmingly believe they have a responsibility to protect and provide a safe
learning environment for lgbtq students. but less than half of them believe they are prepared to answer questions or handle effectively with an lgbtq student who is being bullied or harassed. only 4% of principals report
that their teachers have had any professional development regarding addressing lgbtq students. i'm reminded of a story that happened recently in grand rapids where a group of 3rd graders on the playground,
and a student calls another student a lesbian-- giving you an issue of bullying and harassment, but also, when they went back into the classroom, a child raises her hand and says, "mrs. jones, what is a lesbian?"
that teacher needs to be prepared to answer that question, to know what the parameters of her school district's policies are, and what a developmentally appropriate response would be. and yet, at the present time that is not the case.
massw also supports the recognition of the need for family engagement and involvement with-- with these students, and we appreciate that you recognize the role of school mental health providers, including counselors,
school social workers, and school psychologists. their ethical standards and professional expertise and skills qualify them to address the various needs of lgbtq students and assist in this very important piece of engaging families.
and their acceptability makes them very valuable to students who might not have the resources to go elsewhere. my time is up already. >> thank you very much. well, thank you very much. >> lisa winchell-caldwell? and karen palka is next.
>> thank you all. it has been a long day. it's like number 16 here. i'm with you. i'm speaking on behalf of the michigan coalition to end domestic and sexual violence as their associate director. i have 16 years of working
with victims, survivors, and engaging in the prevention of sexual violence. i think it's important to identify that several people have identified from both sides of the issue some statistics from the centers for disease control.
i want to thank and appreciate the members of the board that produced this guidance, all thoughtful six pages of it, before i get to the very specific bathroom issue that we spent so much time on today. this is in line with
the center for disease control best practices for preventing sexual violence, preventing suicide risk, and addressing health equities across several of the components and issues. we have spent a decade studying sexual violence
prevention, including understanding the risk to individuals who are transgender. most national studies put that at about 60% or higher are at risk or have experienced sexual violence. we are able to identify a
group of individuals that had that rate of risk, and not act on that issue, and do things we could to prevent it. in any other group, no matter how small, that would be a travesty. so any group coming forward
identifying concerns about sexual violence as their primary motivation to not stand in support of this legislation are not using the evidence base around what actually effectively prevents that risk. fifteen different states have
enacted similar legislation-- and not in the guidance format that you have used-- and none of them have produced any data that showed that it increases risk to non-lgbtq identified individuals-- not from state coalitions,
not from law enforcement that were available to discuss it-- there is no statistical evidence that this change would increase risk. it would simply reduce risk for individuals who need to access the restroom.
so we need to bring that component forward that is in line with improving equity and safety for everyone. there are survivors and victims that may feel uncomfortable. that is unfortunate. i have been in the tenuous
place where i have had to speak for both groups-- survivors who want something and those who don't. the reality of risk facing transgender individuals is too important, and too much of an issue, that i think that we have
to move forward with the guidance that you produced. i very much appreciate the thought, effort and evidence base that went into producing it, and thank you for making time for everyone to comment on it. >> karen palka?
and kelly rabideau thank you for your time. girls' self-esteem peaks at age nine, and goes down from there. that is research based. i'm the founder and executive director of a beautiful me. we are a non-profit charity.
we provide proactive self-esteem workshops for girls in grades 3-12 with a pinpoint of 5th grade. since 2008, we have shown positive outcome based data on the growth of our girls, and over 6,000 of them in michigan.
we provide a safe learning environment, and over the course of four, two-hour workshops, our girls flourish. at one of the many schools that i work at, the girls are not feeling safe. they are looking for a safe
place to go to the bathroom, but it's more than just the bathroom-- a safe place to change in the locker room, a safe place to play sporting events that they are playing with mixed company, and to also go on to
an overnight camp. society and title ix has recognized the innate differences between men and women and has respected these differences by providing separate facilities for showering, changing, and using the restroom.
this protects people's rights to privacy, and particularly, the right for children in a school setting to not be exposed to the private anatomy of the opposite sex. i believe in empowering our youth, specifically females. i believe in a safe learning
environment for all. i believe god did not make a mistake. i ask that the michigan board of education vote against this memorandum and-- for a safe learning environment to be upheld for all of our girls. thank you very much.
>> kelly rabideau, and katie blow will be next. >> hello. thank you for listening to everybody today. i'm sure it is a long day for all of us. my name is kelly rabideau, and i'm the mother of four
children and a grandmother of five. thank you for hearing my statement on this very sensitive issue today. and i'm going to briefly speak on two of the issues. giving transgenders the use of a girl or boy's bathroom
i believe is a crisis waiting to happen. i don't believe this will solve the problem of the lgbtq with self-esteem, anxiety or depression, not to mention that this will create uncomfortable situations
for the other students. i think we're putting the other students in an awkward situation to accommodate a small group of people. and then there are those who will take this issue and abuse it by-- whatever-- taking pictures
or exposing themselves-- you know, things like that. and then there are the bullies. they're not going to stop being a bully because of this. it gives them more reason to bully. for example, a transgender
girl goes into a boy's bathroom because she identifies as a boy. in comes in the bully. they can be raped, severely beaten-- horrible things can happen. this isn't protecting them. we're setting them up for some
pretty dangerous situations. the next issue is the privacy rule. the school and staff have no right to keep anything from us, the parents, especially something as sensitive as the matters of the lgbtq. this is a family matter
and should be addressed within the family. we as parents have the right to teach our children on the right moral issues. it is not the right of the schools to override and hide what is going on at school with our kids.
this is a very sensitive issue, and it's 100% unacceptable. and-- one of the things i was just thinking about-- it's not on my paper-- is that i don't know who wrote this memo, but i'm wondering
if they are parent. because as a parent, if my child were struggling in this way, i would want to know 100%. so i think keeping that from us is very, very wrong. so that's just a couple of things.
so thank you. >> katie lowe, and thomas nelson will follow katie. >> hi, thank you for listening. i'm here to speak for my children's future and education, which i feel seems to be a major lack of focus on
the state's list of major topics and needs to be discussed in this platform today. it's a difficult conversation to know where to begin, and i only have a short few minutes so i'm going to jump right in. a lot of the focus seems to be
on the child's sexuality and not the education anymore. my children are 5 and 8 years old. my 8-year-old daughter has to make sure her tank top straps are at least two finger widths long. the girls also have to make
sure that any dresses, skirts, or shorts come past their fingertips. and my 15-year-old niece at school-- the girls are not allowed to wear yoga pants because boys are distracted. but you want to allow boys
in the girl's restroom and vice versa. sorry-- i lost my spot. you can take away whatever argument you want, but you can't take away the right down to basic science 101. male and female,
minus the very small 3% of the transgender community. the men's rooms have urinals for centuries. men don't sit on the toilet to pee and women don't stand above a urinal to pee. this small 3% cause the state to pass laws and funded
bathrooms in all the communities-- it is ludicrous. our children are so far behind in education compared to other countries. we are a powerful country, but lag far behind in education. the u.s.
scores below average in math and reading. the american workforce has some of the weakest mathematical and problem-solving skills in the entire developed world. we score far below average and better than only 2 of 12 other
developed countries, and these other countries are not just superior to ours, but continuing to better their school systems and percentages while we have steadily declined and comfortably rested right where we are,
because the education system is failing our children. it is focused on the wrong things. you want to allow a 10 year boy named jeffery call himself amanda and think as their parents i don't have a right to know that every single
person in the school system is addressing him this way, right down to his school records, but he can't even go to school without shots unless i take a class and forfeit it. and i have to do that every six months.
regardless of religious beliefs, let's not forget to mention the fact that they are obviously struggling in some way, shape, or form. and as a parent, i should be involved. i'm actually floored that this is even up for consideration.
people are not going to tolerate school systems raising our children behind our backs. i want you to give my children an education and allow parents to be parents. as a parent, it's my job to bring up a productive human
being to contribute to society, and the school's part in that is their education. you are allowing and helping a child to live a double life, a lie. you want to talk about providing a healthy and productive atmosphere
for these children? the focus needs to go back on the education and academics. >> thomas nelson followed by linda karl-nelson. you guys are amazing-- what stamina-- holy cats. >> a lot of caffeine. >> thank you for allowing me
to speak to you today. i think this is democracy at its best. first, know that i am the father of six children-- five girls and one son-- 12 grandchildren, and three great-grandchildren. know also that
my one son is gay, who attempted to take his life as a young teenager. know that narrowly averted tragedy occurred mostly because he heard his father stupidly pontificate, unwittingly, the catholic church's denigrating doctrine
on homosexuality. that incident where i very nearly lost my most beloved son started me on a journey, a journey in which my statement here today is just one waypoint. it is a journey of working in ministry for the lgbt
community for more than 35 years. in those 35 years, i have met hundreds of lgbt people, listened to hundreds of their stories, and talked with numberless parents. i have learned far more than
i ever intended, and i cried far more than i want to remember. i have encountered every aspect of lgbt family trials and tragedies. it has been an experience beyond anything one could imagine.
i have learned, and i'm still learning. based on that background, i wish to comment on just two aspects of the guidelines-- and i think the guidelines are great. these guidelines seem to be generating some controversy.
number one is the concern i have heard expressed over the potential thwarting of authority of parents. some parents are concerned that they must be in the loop, no exceptions. i can understand that sentiment.
unfortunately, it is not a blanket truism that would fit all cases. i have witnessed more than a few family tragedies where coming out to parents resulted in disaster. keeping parents in the loop is not that simple.
it's a concept that ignores real life-- 40% of homeless youths-- 40%-- are lgbt. how do they get that way? my experience is that they are homeless because the parents could not handle the reality of their god-- their child's
god-given nature. sorry. i'm over time. coming out is the most personal decision. each case of deciding whether or when to involve parents should be considered individually, because it is
imperative that any decision must ultimately be decided by the individual person involved. no teacher, counselor or other school official should be compelled to out a young person to his parents-- that's it.
the second issue-- and i'll be very brief-- is the issue of the fury over bathroom usage. parental concern over a child's safety does not fit with reality. transgender people have been using the bathroom of their
choice virtually forever. i challenge anyone to relate when or where such practice has resulted in the abuse of a child. it is a non-issue that seems to be mostly the fodder of political pandering. concerned parents need to be
educated that bathroom usage is not an issue born of real life experience. thank you for listening. >> linda karl-nelson. and deborah moore is going to be next. >> good afternoon, and thank you all
for your patience and attention during this long day. my name is linda karl-nelson. i am a catholic mother of three adult children. my youngest son is a gay man. my daughter is married to a transgender man, and my other son is a deacon,
a married deacon in the catholic church. so we are a very diverse family. i speak today as a member of a faith which has been anything but supportive of the lgbt community. my husband and i have been
involved for decades as leaders in pflag groups and catholic organizations that work for the equality of gay and lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people in the church and in the wider world. as i read many of the negative
comments on the guidelines, i was struck by the frequent reliance on religion as an argument against allowing transgender students to use the bathroom of their gender identity, and the false assumption that males who are not transgender will use
those bathrooms as a means of viewing female students. that argument reminds me of the belief that gay men were responsible for the sexual abuse crisis in the catholic church-- a belief which has been debunked over and over. the real offenders were not
gay men, but men who were sexual predators. it seems that many, if not most, people who object to the guidelines do so out of fear and ignorance. the antidote to ignorance is education
about the feared issue. listening to the real life experiences of transgender students, which we've heard today, could go a long way toward opening minds to the reality of their lives, and their hopes for
the opportunity to live as the persons they know themselves to be. we're talking here about students in public schools, not people who use restrooms in a target store. arguments citing men, adult men who are not transgender,
frequenting women's restrooms do not apply to the school situation. according to the guidelines, transgender students will be supported and counseled by the administration and staff of each school that agrees to abide by the guidelines.
these students will be known to the staff and dealt with on an individual basis. any student who attempts to pretend to be transgender and use the wrong bathroom would be disciplined. once again, the public needs to be reminded of two things.
number one, these guidelines are not proposed as legally binding, but are available to schools who wish to provide a safe environment for all students. and number two, they were developed as a response to the request from many michigan
school districts for a policy that would provide an equal opportunity for lgbt students to experience a safe learning environment. i applaud the board for proposing these guidelines. >> deborah moore is next, followed by sherry dolbeck.
>> hello, everyone. i'm here today as a single mom with some very deep concerns as a mother and a grandmother concerning these. first of all, i would like to know how it was decided for who participated in the development
of these guidelines. i see where there were parents of transgender children who participated in this discussion. why weren't parents of those whose children who have been sexually abused allowed to participate to offer their
legitimate concerns in this regard? why weren't parents of straight children allowed to participate in this discussion? it seems to me this was a one sided discussion which is why i'm here today.
how is it that the rights of boys who identify as girls trump the rights of girls who are born girls? how is it that those of us who disagree are being called haters and intolerant, when ironically, it's those who are trying
to force this issue onto others who are being some of the most intolerant, hateful and bullying those of us who don't agree into compliance? if these guidelines are voluntary, then why have them at all?
why are they even being introduced in the first place if schools aren't required to follow suit? could it be that it's a step closer to slowly making them into law, and another step closer to eliminating parental rights when it comes to
ensuring our children are in a safe environment at school? the number of transgender students is a very small percentage when compared to those who are straight. how is it that this board is willing to sabotage my child's safety and protection?
how is it that this board feels it's okay to invade my child's right to privacy? before any assumptions be made about me, or any false accusations of who i am and why i am here today, i'm going to get brutally honest with you--
there has been pedophilia on both sides of my family. four of my five children were molested by their biological father. i fought for eight years to keep my children safe from their abuser.
mr. austin, do you know -- >> please, please-- that's inappropriate. excuse me, >> okay, i'm sorry. forgive me. >> please. >> i'm nearly 51 years old. i just recently learned a
couple months ago from my brother that my sister was also sexually molested by another child who tied her up and fondled her in a locked bedroom of our babysitter's house over 45 years ago with me in the next room and never knew it.
i have several family members who are gay, lesbian, transgender and bisexual. do i hate them? no, absolutely not. i love my family. just because i disagree with their lifestyle and i personally believe it is self
destructive doesn't mean i'm a hater. let me make something very clear. i'm not saying that transgender students would harm my children, even though i might disagree with encouraging transgenderism.
but i'm very concerned this policy would put all children at great risk and potentially open the door to be sexually abused by those who may pose as transgender students, but really aren't and have full access to restrooms and locker
rooms at our schools. i also feel this could potentially traumatize victims of sexual abuse and would be a serious violation and invasion of their own privacy. i also am concerned for the safety of the transgender student in using
the opposite sex restrooms, as others will be extremely uncomfortable and will therefore potentially bully the transgender student, creating an even more hostile environment. so this is a safety concern for both sides.
you have in the third paragraph down of the proposed guidelines the following verbiage: "research indicates that lgbtq students nationally and in michigan are targeted with physical violence and experience a hostile school environment more frequently
than their non-lgbtq peers." if this is the case, why would you be willing to put them in harm's way by allowing them access to bathrooms and locker rooms with which gender they identify? this is pure insanity. >> sherry dolbeck,
followed by christine hessler. to speak with you today. it's obvious that as i've read your guidelines that you put a great deal of thought and planning into them. and if i had been asked to come to your committee, i would have added a couple
of ideas. one is honoring. we all want to honor one another. we want our children to honor us. we want to honor one another. this is one of the fundamental principals that i live by,
because my parents taught me to honor my father and mother and to obey them. it seems that these guidelines as i read them are trying to undermine and demean the traditional foundation of family and parental rights and authority,
shifting society to governmental and school control of our children without our consent. consent of parents is very important. instead of parents, the school would be setting the standards
of morality and modesty, conduct, safety and privacy and acceptable risk. the school will be introducing and guiding children to choose their gender without the support-- with the support of lgbt counselors, with library
material to be provided, and outside leaders that parents may not have knowledge of. instead of supporting the parents by teaching children to honor their father and mother, you want children to be able to keep secrets from
their parents while expecting everybody in the school to acknowledge these secrets. your guidelines teach and model disrespect and dishonor to parents, to their values and beliefs, as children are allowed to keep these secrets from
parents and are encouraged to have a different name or gender while at school. i'm also concerned about all the students and their parents and the employees that are employed by the public schools who will be directly influenced by your guidelines.
all employees will be expected to receive training and maintain the climate of support that hides things from parents and encourages disrespect and dishonor. these employees will expected to agree to your agenda and terms of employment.
they'll be expected to yield their rights to free speech and personal integrity in order to hold the position as an employee in the public schools. it appears that you have failed to stay in your public role of assisting all parents
as they raise and educate their children. it appears that you've created these guidelines without fear and balanced research from parents who don't necessarily agree with your agenda. these guidelines to honor and respect the position
and authority of parents and public schools and employees is very important. please reconsider and rewrite these parts. we want all children to be safe. and i thank you very much for the opportunity.
>> christine hessler. and she'll be followed by connie chiapelli. it's been a long day. i want to thank you for allowing us the privilege to come here and speak our voice and our concerns. my name is christine hessler.
i'm married with 5 grown kids and i have 17 grandkids and 3 great grandkids and i have previously worked for a year with teens in the waterford public school system that were going through a lot and i also worked in a daycare as a latchkey coordinator and ten
years with children. my heart is for the hurting, the ones who feel different or left out. and the reason that all started with me is because i know what that's like. when i was 13, i was removed out of school and i was out
of school for a whole year. and i know what that stigma feels like when you have to face your peers at school. i may not identify with the lbgt community on their particular issue, but i know what that stigma feels like. it's a horrible thing to
be bullied and treated a certain way. so i'm here to say that i do care about them and i care about how they feel. i have a word picture to share with you so bear with me regarding my feelings about this memorandum.
many years ago, my life began to spiral downhill. my husband lost his job. more than once, we lost our house, our finance, and i lost my health to unforeseen problems. as i worked through my many issues, i often felt overwhelmed
and alone with what i was facing, struggling to have the changes i desired, thinking this would resolve my needs and wants. after getting what i thought was going to be the answer, a new tidal wave of problems arose.
and that's why i'm against this statement and guidance for safe learning environments for the lbgt student memo, for the same reason i just stated in my story above. see, it's like when a man goes to dig a well-- he only sees the surface.
he does not know what lies below. and there's a way that seems right to us often, like this memorandum, yet often the end produces a tsunami effect. the memo will shake the very foundation of our state and all the kids involved
and our grandkids. and i'm speaking for all the kids, the teachers and parents and your board members and our future generation. i collected tons of signatures on petitions throughout the community and almost
at a 98% of the people i spoke with had two major concerns, but the concern was not against the lbgt community. their two concerns were-- but absolutely against transgender or gnc students' use of the bathrooms and locker rooms of their gender identity.
that's where their first concern was. they did not want their kids in the bathroom with the opposite gender identity. and the second thing was the parents' rights being removed through the privacy and confidentiality of
a transgender or gnc student the student that would now be part of the school staff joining together and keeping that from the parents. and so my concern is for the safety of all the kids and the care for all the kids. but this memorandum is not
going to resolve that issue. let's reason together. let's find a better way for all the kids to feel safe and to have dignity. that's what it's all about. because if this is put into policy, it will not make anyone feel safe.
so my question to you is to reason together with within yourself as an individual-- not as a group, but as an individual-- as you come together. will this solve the deeper issue, the underlying issue? and thank you very much
for taking your time today and listening to us. i know it's been a very grueling day for all of us. >> you're welcome. >> connie chiapelli. and then-- >> hi, my name was connie chiapelli.
>> oh, good. >> and when i was born they said, "it's a girl." and when there was a man born, my husband, they said, "it's a boy." i am a woman. i am a mom, a mother. i have children, grandchildren,
sisters, brothers. i have a sister that practices homosexuality. i love her dearly and i do not change my stance on this issue because of it, because i want something more for her. this issue is a special needs issue in my opinion.
there are children who have special needs. the school and public have adopted different things to address their needs and help them function in society, such as a class or classroom-- sometimes schools like for the blind or the deaf.
we have, however, not disregarded the children that do not have special needs or learning disabilities. you see, the handicapped may always be handicapped. however, they're loved and have perimeters for functioning in a safe
and healthy environment. the deaf, the autistic, the blind, the paraplegic-- there are those that have broken bones that are not forced to participate in gym. the system isn't revamped to elevate them and disregard the rights of others.
you have no right to transform the system for a group creating a bullying effect in society. if you make everyone live according to those that are mentally handicapped, do you also lose what you have? freedom, your freedom. when you go to the doctor,
do you want to-- want them to treat you with a prescription you don't need, or do you want the doctors to give you something that will cause an epidemic? if the person on the street chooses to be a beggar and make their means that way,
don't you have a choice to support them or not? you are not made into a beggar because of their choices. would you force people to eat sushi because you like it or force everyone to drink liquor because you do? no.
just because someone has cancer, do you? do you want to receive chemotherapy treatments that are unnecessary? one day you were thought of. another time you were dreamed of. planned for.
other times, watched over, cherished and protected. without those elements, you wouldn't have then, in a structured environment conducive for your growth and learning. we need to afford our children the same things: a future
to look forward to, a hope to hold onto and a dream that can be fulfilled by giving them options of right paths to take. if you were to tell your parents when you were a baby or young child, "don't change my diaper-- i want to wear it forever,"
how much sense does it make for a parent to allow that? absolutely none. there are teachers and there are students for a purpose. when a baby is born the doctor introduces the infant as, "it's a boy," if it's a baby boy or "it's a girl," if it's
a baby girl. the baby did not make the decision and neither did the parent. someone higher than the parent and the child made that decision. we have to be honest with ourselves and others and stop
living in denial. denial is not conducive to healthy thoughts or actions, nor outcomes of a better life. if a gardener sells corn, the crop will come up corn. if he sells cucumbers, cucumbers will come forth. what is sown produces after
itself, unless the seeds have been genetically altered. lies produce lies. we agree, there is-- i agree there is a special need issue at hand. those that are gender confused need to have a place for them. not in the midst of those that
are confident in their born identity. i do not support this bill. >> jimmy chiapelli. >> my name is jim chiapelli. i don't know what more i can say other than what she said, but i would like to say i'm vehemently opposed to this
proposal. it's not the proposal-- that's a simple solution. the solution to that is that we have gender specific bathrooms for these people. that's simple. we've made it really complicated.
i guarantee you that's going to be a lot cheaper than losing funding for the schools from the people who say they're going to homeschool. here's my problem, okay: i'm tired of people coming to me and telling me because i don't believe the way they do that
i'm either homophobic or a hater, because that's just not true. i worked in the hair business for 35 years. do you know how many gay and lesbians and transgenders that i worked with and worked on?
listen, i loved every single one of them. did i treat them differently? yes. you know why? they have softer heart than a lot of other people. but that doesn't mean that we can allow-- when did children
start making the decisions for us and what we're going to do? listen, if that's case, then what we need to do is start saying, "let's remove all the senate and the house of representatives and we'll bring in a bunch of eight years olds and they'll run the country
and make all the decisions from this point forward." this is not a transgender thing. to me, this is an lgbt thing. this is-- they are trying to force what they believe on us. now, many years ago, i was a certain person and i lived
a certain type of lifestyle that was very inappropriate. i tried to convince as many people as i could that that was the right lifestyle because i felt the more people that i could convince, the more i could believe it myself. so in closing, i'd like to say--
i have 14 minutes-- i'd like to say-- >> seconds, but go ahead. >> i'm vehemently opposed i'm tired of them telling me that if i don't believe the way they believe that it's going to cause their children to commit suicide.
i'm just sick of it and i think i represent the majority and not the minority. >> beverly sue moore followed by ann marie reicher. >> my pastor, when he goes to speak, he always says, "look at me." so i'm asking you, look at me
for a reason. i haven't got a speech prepared for you today. matter of fact, i've been sitting there for 5.5 hours because i've come today to talk to you from my heart as a mom and as a grandma. i've heard a lot of different
things out there today, and the main thing i want to share with you today is it's not about love or compassion but about responsibility and accountability. and that has to do with you. i was thinking out there when ladies talked about
the boogeyman and i thought, "what about my little great granddaughter some day that's in first grade and she goes into the restroom?" you see, she's not afraid because she's trusting you, the school board, to make decisions on her behalf.
she's not even thinking about being afraid of anything. she's too young and innocent. so my heart today is as a great grandma someday that i don't want to look on the 5:00 news-- and i'm sure you don't either-- and see a picture someday of my little great granddaughter who
has been abused by a pedophile in the bathroom not because she was afraid, you see-- because she was too innocent and too trusting. so, i'm asking you today to make a responsible decision. i'm not for this proposal, but i am asking you to think
about this, about a little girl maybe in 1st grade that's been abused by a pedophile and her heart has to bleed with pain for the rest of her life. and god bless you. i don't want her blood to be on your hands. >> ann marie reichert and
jamie edcock will be next. >> she had to leave. >> victoria miller will be next. >> i come before you as a mom of a 10-year-old boy who is highly intelligent-- and we recently met with the board to talk about how we can advance
him because he's too smart-- and the next day met with the special needs team for my 5-year-old daughter who is severely behind. at my daughter's 18-week ultrasound, we were thrown onto a roller coaster ride that i wanted nothing to do
with. i wanted off that ride, but i wasn't allowed that choice. my daughter was born with a major heart condition which brought her into three open heart surgeries her first 2.5 years of life. unfortunately, that was
the minor issues. we have had so many other issues-- not eating by mouth. my feelings were so torn apart at that time. i wanted nothing to do with it. i wanted god to heal my baby. but you know what? he didn't.
i had to walk through the fire. i had to force a tube down my daughter's nose every day for a year and a half so she would live. i hated it. i felt like i was torturing my child, but i did it because i loved her.
it wasn't about my feelings. my feelings wanted to run out that door, get in the car and go down i-75 to the nearest bar in florida so i could relax a little bit. feelings can mess with us. feelings as a 14-year-old that made severe errors of judgment
that i have regretted to this day, so i just-- feelings and making decisions as a child that they could future beat themselves up over and over and over-- we all make mistakes. but i have a 10-year-old son who has watched and been put on the back burner because of
her, who has said, "mommy, i don't feel like i'm loved. i feel like you love her more." and i've shown him countless ways that, "i love you just as much, and you matter just as much," but she trumps the saw. through that and through my husband's cancer treatment,
i was able to build a relationship with my 10-year-old son who just wrote me a note and said, "i'm so thankful for the bond we have created through these hardships." i have an amazing relationship with my son and i'm thankful.
we can be real. we can be honest. we can make mistakes. i tell him, "okay, i screwed it up and i'm sorry," but i grieve at the thought that if my son was struggling with identity or-- regardless of that, there are a million
other issues that he could struggle with as he's growing up. growing up is hard and i want him to come to me, and i want the school social worker, psychologist to get involved and say, "we want to help your family.
we want to help your family bond." i want to be there for my son even if i don't agree with what he's doing. i did a lot of things that my parents were like, my mom would say, "larry, talk some sense into that girl."
but i want the opportunity to be invited in. if my son wants to be called susie, i want to know. i don't want-- i don't think it's right to the child or to the parent to be excluded from that. i want the opportunity to build
my relationship with my son. and no, life isn't easy, but you know what, i want to go through it with him. >> victoria miller, followed by hanna miller. my name is victoria miller. i'm from waterford michigan, and i have no children.
i'm here because i'm a college graduate and i seriously value student safety. i feel the proposed lgbtq guidelines for the bathrooms will hamper a school in its efforts to provide safe and to prevent student bullying. it will in fact solve nothing,
but open the doors to those who would exploit the guidelines to their own devices and gratification. for example, under the current guidelines, a 16-year-old boy, not a transgender, may declare himself to be a girl. he may enter a girls bathroom
or locker room at will. he may retain his cell phone. young girls could not request his removal. those girls have now lost their right to privacy. they will be afraid to change in a locker room or to go to the bathroom, or even
of going to school. those girls will become victims of peer pressure and bullying. when they speak out and say how uncomfortable they are with the boys in the bathroom, the girls will be called intolerant, haters and
transphobes by other students. i can attest to this. i have had this at college. i mentioned i was uncomfortable having a transgender in the bathroom, and they were like, "oh, well, you're just intolerant." i just mentioned that i was
uncomfortable with it. it's like, "i'm okay, but i'm uncomfortable." so i can-- this is a true story. these guidelines will create exactly what schools wish to prevent. the situation will cause confusion and fear in schools.
this is extremely upsetting as people, transgenders included, just want to use the bathroom in peace. so a solution: please don't take away the majority's rights of privacies so that a minority may feel safe and comfortable.
instead, let's find a solution that all students may feel comfortable and safe: keep bathrooms distinct and separate. you can use the bathroom that corresponds to your birth certificate. this will be safer, but uncomfortable for many,
so unisex bathrooms should be provided, and their use encouraged. i personally am uncomfortable using the same bathroom as a man and believe it would be safer for the students of all genders if unisex bathrooms were used instead of co-ed.
thank you for hearing me today. >> hanna miller and then karly allen. i'd be glazing over about now. you guys are amazing. i just would not be able to handle this. i'm here today-- i just want to thank you for letting
me express my opinion and the first amendment right. i'm actually against this proposal you have made on three or four things. the first one is you contradict your first thing-- on page 2, "providing appropriate and meaningful family engagement
supports." you turn to page 4 and you say that the parents don't need to be involved, they don't need to know the children's name. they don't need to know what goes on at school. i think that is wrong, because our parents need to be involved
with our children, because they are what they live with at home. they are the connection that we have to the outside world. actually, what happens at school is probably not as much that we gain our knowledge to go out into the working world through our parents
and the responsibilities that those parents have. and speaking of responsibility, isn't our responsibility and our rights as parents to make sure our children are safe? i don't think letting them-- what gender they identify with going into the bathroom
is safe. if you are born with an anatomically correct either gender-- whichever one you choose-- you should be able to go into those. i do say create unisex bathrooms, but the locker rooms you should keep boys
to boys and girls to girls, just because there is curiosity is on both sides. little boys can be hurt and little girls can be hurt. let us separate that and make that where they aren't. because i'm not talking-- transgender people, it's not
about them i'm worried about. what i'm worried about is the actual pedophiles that will use this to their advantage, because they will say, "you have given me permission-- i feel-- right now, i identify as a woman. i've raped that little girl,
i've molested, and i've done what i wanted to, but now i'm a guy-- i can go back to what i want." i think that is wrong and i think we need to stand up with that responsibility and say no, even though we're being peer pressured to change our
ideals to help them feel comfortable. i don't think it's right that the majority should suffer at the minority's thinking that they don't have the right. and i appreciate every one of you for coming out and letting us say this and even
coming up with this proposal-- the hours you spent working on this. but i ask you, please, keep our children safe. because our children don't need to learn about sex education at four and five. let them be children.
if i'm worried about what a 5-year-old knows what gender they are, they're not having a life. don't let us force this down our kids' throat. >> karly allen followed by michelle molina. karly allen here?
>> thank you so much for listening to us and staying so late. i know this has got to be trying. i just want to state that a few statistics i found: 3.8% of americans are lgbtq community, 0.3% of americans are
transgender, 96.2% are non-lgbtq completely. the statistics of rape under the age of 12 is 22%, 54% under the age of 18. in a given school year, 58% of 7th through 12th graders experience sexual harassment of some sort-- 62,939 cases
of child sexual abuse in 2012 alone. i couldn't find anything closer to this date. this is not an issue of equality or anti-lgbtq, but an issue of safety and i'm against the guidelines. it is proven that children are
not mentally capable of making responsible decisions such as tattoos, piercings, smoking, drinking, joining armed forces, and cannot consent to have sex until the age of 18 legally. so why would we entrust them to make a decision on what gender they choose or identify
with? i'm sure most transgenders, if not all, have already been using the bathrooms of the gender they identify with as adults. if these guidelines go into effect, it opens doors for predators as well as drawing
negative attention to the transgender community as well as the entire lgbtq community itself, and will cause bullying to elevate, especially towards the lgbtq community, considering that they are only 3.8%. parents need to know everything
going on with their children in and out of the home, within school especially. without knowing what is going on with our children, how are we supposed to support or counsel our children? it is bad enough children want to hide things from their
parents without the school staff keeping these things from the children as well. children don't feel comfortable talking about sex with their parents. talking about their sexual orientation or their gender of choice.
it's a very uncomfortable subject to speak to with your parents, and i'm sure all of us can understand that. but as parents, we need to know and be able to guide, support, comfort, and counsel our children. i'm completely against this
and i'm sure we can find a better way of keeping every child in the entire school district safe. >> michelle molina, and she will be followed by jos㉠ibarra. >> thank you for having us here. my name is michelle molina.
i'm greatly concerned with the proposal that has sat forth here in the michigan department of education. as a mother, i'm appalled that anyone would think that it's okay to let their children live a double life at school while leaving the parents
in the dark. not only is this an action preparing adolescents for secrecy, a life of dishonesty, and as if it's okay, but potentially causing family conflict and undermining parental authority. this is the reason people
are not able to vote and enlist in the military, buy cigarettes or apply for a credit card until they are 18. that being said, no one has a right to withhold information from a parent about their children, give false advice about serious life matters, nor
give consent to change names, choose restrooms, or about any other matter. it's my child and my right, period. the bathroom and locker room situation should be common sense. this is no reason to let boys
in girls bathrooms or girls in boys bathrooms. this is not going to accomplish the happiness or safety that the proposal thinks it may bring. it is the long run the student knows the truth, and i do not want my daughter to be in
a bathroom with any boys. do you really believe that boys care if a girl thinks that she is a boy? absolutely not. i personally understand that adolescent years can be a tough time for many children. and i believe that every child
should feel safe and free from harm whether in school or not. throughout the proposal for lgbtq students, this concern, safety, is highly stressed. that is bullying issue. once again, all kids need to feel safe, and if the school districts start to implement
and educate a no-tolerance for bullying, schools will be safer for all. that was written by a good friend of mine that is also a sister, but as a victim, i want to you hear this. this is not an lgbtq issue at all.
this is a safety issue for our a young man victimized his first child at the age of 11. so pedophile starts at a very young age. he didn't get the help he needed, nor his parents sought for help, nor the parents knew. i became his second victim
when i was 11 and he was 17. my daughter is 12 and i do not think it's safe for her to have a bathroom where anyone can just walk in. my daughter also feels that this is wrong, and she is very uncomfortable with it, so i am her voice.
>> jos㉠ibarra, and victor torres will be next. >> good late afternoon. thank you for your service. a lot of things that i had on my notes have already been spoken, so i won't beat the dead horse. but i wanted to ask you, what
is your plan to protect the lgbtq students once this happens? what is your plan to protect non-lgbtq students? because you're opening a door for bullying. you already have a policy for bullying-- you haven't done
anything with it. we need to set that in place before you go any further. i urge you to table this issue until you can get a handle on the bullying policy, because once you open this door, there is no going back to fix the bullying policy, and you
have to fix that first. there's a wise man that says, "line upon line and precept upon precept." you can't skip lines-- you can't skip things and expect a good outcome. i implore you to review this and set it aside until you can
fully ensure the safety of each and every student-- not just lgbtq students, but non-lgbtq students. also want to commend each and every one of you-- i've actually googled each and every one of you, and i want to thank you for accomplishments
you made who make you the people you are today. and i want to remind you that you did not get your accomplishments by feelings all your accomplishments did not come because you felt, "i don't feel good," or "i don't feel bad."
they were by hard work and perseverance. and i implore you today, do not let your hard work and perseverance be swayed by feelings and emotions. this is an emotional topic, as many of you have seen today. however, we need level heads
and knowledgeable people, not emotional people, making this decision. god bless you;. >> victor torres and linda cypret-kilbourne. my name is victor torres. thank you so much for doing what you're doing.
this has got to be extremely huge on your conscience. i'm coming to you as a father tonight, but i really need to come to you as what i do-- i'm a minister of the gospel. and it was very eye opening to be able to see so many different people's opinions,
so many people's stances and where they are and what they think. i sit back and wonder-- do all of you already have your minds made up? it's easy for me to look at that, and i wonder if anyone's thoughts and concerns
here adding up to make any difference in your life or in the decision process. and i think about the lgbtq individuals, and my heart goes out to them. they really do-- i really don't know what is ministered in many other churches,
but i know what we minister at our church. but i will tell you this, we don't compromise the gospel. but at the same time people are people. so when you take a look at this, i need to ask this question to everyone actually that's
involved in this. we're talking about discrimination here. why is it that when people have a particular core value or morals, why is it that they can feel discriminated against and nothing is done about them? why is it that they cannot
express what they don't want to be a part of, but we're expressed as haters. why is that? you see, in our church-- i mean, we love people, we really do. but i have to ask the lgbtq community-- do you realize
what is happening to us as christians? do you realize how we're being discriminated against? are you looking at that as a whole? here we have children, our children, that we are going to have in public schools
and we're raising them up with particular morals and values-- not to hate lgbtq communities or anybody, for that matter. but why is it that we get put aside and say, "who cares about you?" this is happening all over the place-- you can see it.
but i need to ask the lgbtq community, do you realize what you are doing to us? you talk about love, but do you realize the position you're putting us in with our children, as to how we need to be able to explain this and how we need to be able to explain what
is going to happen in the restrooms? unisex bathrooms is a very good place to start with. when we raise our children and give them an understanding of so many people's values and morals, and not to discriminate, against them--
but please don't forget we're being discriminated against, too. if you really want to talk about love then let the lgbt community come up with other solutions that would help everyone, not just this particular policy or proposal that i'm against.
>> thank you for being here again. >> linda cypret-kilbourne, and she'll be followed by sandy khell. and i'm here to speak about a different issue. [ speaking foreign language ] aka, linda l. cypret-kilbourne.
i'm from marshall michigan. greetings, my name is southern thunder woman, and i'd like to let the state board of education know that my right to speak, my free speech at the paw paw redskins school board meeting was denied by the president karen ayers
at the public participation portion on april 13, 2016. and as you know, paw paw is a public school system. i'm asking the state of michigan board of education to send a representative to the next paw paw redskins school board meeting to witness whether
i will be granted the right to speak at the public participation or be denied my right to speak again. the next meeting is wednesday, tomorrow, may 11, 2016 at 7:00 p.m. i'll be protesting outside before the meeting to assure
that my freedom of speech is acknowledged, at least outside of the meeting. indifference to the rights of native americans is racism, and this base american right should not be an issue. my comment in the april 13, 2016 meeting was to address
the racial slur of "redskins" of the paw paw high school, using the native american spiritual leader head as a sports team logo and the nickname of redskins. a redskin is a bloody body part of skinned native americans who were hunted for bounty in our
country's past. as you know, every child is entitled to a healthy living and learning environment in public school systems. the nickname redskin does not allow for this. my right to speak on the subject has been violated.
i'd like to say to the state of michigan board of education for its support and the resolution that was issued. a lie does not become truth, and wrong does not become right. evil does not become good just because it is accepted by
a majority. justice delayed is justice denied. give me my freedom of speech. i'd like to give you these. >> sandy cowell is next and jeannie kegel. >> she left. >> sandy cowell left?
>> no, jeannie kegel. >> oh-- here, this is sandy cowell, right? >> okay, and then let's see if michelle strange is here. >> okay. patrick rouse? >> he's here. okay, so, sandy.
>> the lgbtq proposal contains many complexed issues regarding our children. i disagree with the memo because you want to include the lbtq content in every subject such as english, language arts, creative arts, and health education.
in memo, it states, on line item number 5, and i quote, "inclusion of lgbtq topics in curricula in areas such as social studies, english language arts, creative arts, and health education, including sex education." in creating this memo, you are
alienating the two largest religious groups in this state, the muslims and the christians, who believe this information should be left in sex education classes. many of them already opt out of sex education for the religious beliefs because
they believe they should teach their children about sexual orientation and not the school. by including what the board states is the discovery of sexual orientation in every subject, you will force the parents from these two groups to remove their children
from the public school system. i read from matt sharp, adf legal counsel who represents 63 children in a lawsuit against a school district imposing similar proposals and the department of education. and i quote, "no government agency can unilaterally redefine
the meaning of a federal law to serve its own political ends. the department of education is exceeding what is legally and constitutionally called to do." is this board ready for this type of lawsuit? because based on our
interactions with the parents in michigan, you will either have a massive drop in attendance and/or a lawsuit from angry parents. i'm just asking you to stand with us, the parents and find a better way. this is not it.
>> patrick rouse and then nicole england. >> i'm here to provide my comments on the memo for safe learning environments for lgbtq this issue has plagued our nation with division. we have one side of the argument screaming to be heard and to be
set free and the other side closing their ears. i submit to this board there is another side. president obama recently said and i quote, "in democracies, everyone should want more information, not less. and you shouldn't be afraid
to hear an argument being made." i'm here to present this board with another side of the argument. this is a complex issue and we cannot handle this with the same tactics we handled every other civil rights challenge. it is just not the same.
in the past, liberation has brought forth growth and celebration with new freedoms. after the civil war ended african-american slaves were set free. did they commit suicide because they were liberated?
obviously not. when women gained the right to vote, did they rush to commit suicide? when segregation ended after the tiresome works of the late martin luther king jr. did the oppressed commit suicide? when the first african-american
was elected president of our great country, did he turn to commit suicide? the answer to all these questions is absolutely not. but with the transgender community, liberation has brought forth a lack of hope and more suicide.
this is not the same issue. a doctor from john hopkins university, one of the first universities to perform transsexual operations, and devote an entire wing to this service, finally asked the most important question: is this helping?
the answer was a resounding no. and they closed the wing down. more doctors came to the same conclusion after providing sex hormones and surgeries to over 500 patients. he said "there is too much unhappiness among people who
have had this surgery, and too many end in suicide." the cdc and the youth suicide prevention state "the transgender adolescent continues to have a 50% suicide rate." walter hire, who underwent gender reassignment surgery and lived for eight years
as laura jenson recently state, "negative outcomes are only acknowledged as a way to blame society for its transphobia." this memo you have drafted is not considering the idea that these actions will accelerate the problem. the gay, lesbian, and straight
education network and their report "harsh realities" stress the importance that every child learn to respect and accept all people. their report showed that the bulk of assault and harassment for transgender students happened because of
a lack of acceptance in the schools by other students. to become the top ten in ten, we need to focus on each student, not more memos and procedures. we need to set goals for our state that include the value of life, no matter how different
people are. i'm almost done. i have spoken with a number of faculty across this great state and they all say the same thing. instead of more rules from the state school board we need support to help create
an environment for respect for every student. there are already anti-bullying measures in the school system. we need to do a better job of acknowledging that bullying is unacceptable for everyone. we need to stop this memo and get to work.
members of the state school board,the lgbtq students need you to consider there is >> nicole england and she'll be followed by scott vonet. or vonek, maybe? i was here last month. i'm nicole england. i was here representing
my daughter who has been bullied by a person who identifies with the lgbtq community. i also spoke regarding my son, who has special needs. today i come before you again with a petition of parents who were unaware of these their response was, what?
wow. no, this is not okay. where do i sign? as you can see the majority of the parents who are supposed to be representing disagree with these guidelines. i also spoke with a person from the lgbtq community
and his response was, i think this is ridiculous. i asked him to be here today but he could not due to the prior engagements he had. but he asked me to read his thoughts on this. my name is matthew paulus. i grew up in the public school
system. as part of the lgbt community, with myself being gay, i face certain situations where i was bullied and harassed about my lifestyle choices. along with being overweight, it was something i feel no one should have to endure.
i developed a thick skin early and didn't really pay attention to the negativity surrounding myself. other kids in the k-12 may not take this approach. it may hit them emotionally harder than others. bullying is a huge problem
in the public and private sector of education and i believe the actuibs taken by the michigan department of education is not the right way. children, teens and even some adults do not know what they want at any age. children and teens,
specifically, are influenced by current trends and media coverage and the opinions and thoughts of others so much that they have a hard time making a decision on their own. i feel as though the proposed guidelines made by the michigan department of education should
not be allowed to pass. signed matt paulus. for myself, the law states children under the age of 18 are the parents' responsibility. they cannot voice on this matter but yet you are willing to surpass the majority of these parents who represent
these children. we oppose these guidelines and we think there is i do have over 70 signatures that i represent as well and i have a statement from last month. >> scott vannic, is that -- >> >> it's pronounced vani.
>> vanik, okay. and terrence redman will follow scott. >> all right, ladies and gentlemen, i appreciate your time. it's been stressful and emotional for all of us. i would first like to stay that
i'm a father, a step-father, an uncle, and also a mentor. other people i try to respect by giving my mistakes in life, as we've all had. i am outraged by the fact that the minority gets to say they stripped my father rights away.
all these years, everyone, from the court system has badgered about how fathers need to be more involved, how fathers need to step up. well, right now your decision is stripping my father rights down to be where i'm treated and looked at like the rest
of the population see most fathers in the united states, dead beats. we're out of the picture. but not all of us. there are those who are standing up to support and to be with our my children, if they come out to say they're gay or lesbian
or bisexual i'm still going to love them. there is a difference between saying as a father i'm proud of my child for being my child. i'm proud of my child for being a doctor. or i'm proud of my child of being an outspoken lesbian
or gay individual. there are three pictures to it. do i have to support all three of them? i have the right and obligation to support my children as my child and as their occupation. as what they do personally,
that's where i can stand my ground and say i don't agree with this. i'll support you with the best my ability. but i do not have to support that aspect of your life. with that being said, i appreciate your time.
and hopefully you guys make the wise decision over this. >> terrence redmond? >> he's not here. >> thank you for telling me that. crystal lynn musselman? sara giddings? wade happy?
and wade will be followed by john wilks. my name is wade hoppy and i'm a resident of van buren township and i'm here as a parent, and also i'm a businessman as well. i wanted to express my opposition to your proposed
policy. and based on a few different reasons, the first is that the current policy of segregation by biological sex is perceived to be discriminatory. whenever an action is slapped with that label,
it automatically seems to be out have bounds. we can't have discrimination against anybody for any reason. but that isn't really how our laws work. we discriminate against people all the time. our laws are designed to mediate
between opposing parties. that's why we have laws. and it always favors one group over the other. if the republic is working properly, the laws should favor the will of the majority. that's why we call it consent of the governed.
so to dismiss a policy because it's perceived to be discriminatory i think is deceptive. in addition, i heard comments that have been passed around by people who have supported this proposal and they have said that, well, opposition
of this proposal that is motivated out of religious principle is somehow disqualified. that that also is not be to considered and i think that's wrong because all laws originate from somebody's moral conviction.
all laws come from someone's deeply held conviction. as far as the law is concerned, the origin of those convictions is irrelevant. each citizen feels strongly about a policy. it doesn't really matter where it comes from.
they have a right to express that and try to formulate law. the desire to create a safe learning environment is itself a moral conviction and a demonstration of that very idea. also i heard the idea passed around that those who oppose
this are bigots. but restrained behavior is not bigotry. it's the essence of law. that's what a law does. it restrains someone's behavior. preferably, it restrains the minority's behavior. so, again, slapping such
action with the term "bigotry" it's not helpful in advancing the discussion. finally there is appropriate legal way to form policy to protect behavior if the american people want to let that happen. the legal way is not through
the judiciary or through bureaucrats, but instead through our legislatures. >> john wilks? and luke shuck. >> before my time starts, i want to applaud you for staying. you could have easily said "hey
our time is from 12:30 to 1:30. we're going home." and i appreciate you staying and listening to us babble on. i'm a father of four children. two of which are still in the school system. i'm deeply concerned about the course of action that
this referendum with take, in regards to the bathroom, locker room policy. as a former school teacher and 20 year veteran of working with teens, i can see the devastating consequences from allowing a young person the option to choose which
bathroom or locker room they will use. you're opening up the ability for our young people to legally view members of the opposite gender in the most private and vulnerable setting. it's not that i'm worried about the confused individual.
i'm worried about the predator. and our schools are filled with them. not because our schools are bad but there are bad people that go to school just like bad people who go to church and the grocery store. teenage rape is already
a concern for many high schools and now we're opening the door for predators to feed their fantasies and possibly act on their desires because we provide them an environment to do so. it doesn't make sense to abandon the feelings and concerns
and fears of 99.7% of the population to accommodate the .03% that call themselves the truth is, we know this agenda is not coming from students who are afraid to go to the bathroom. yet, if we allow students to choose which bathroom they're
going to use, you will cause a large number of students to fear using the bathroom at school. it would make sense to me if we had a one-stall gender neutral bathroom for students to use. a and i think that would solve
the problem if we had a few of those. after all, the reality is there is only a certain number of handicap parking spaces. why? because there's only a small number of legally qualified handicap drivers.
so you don't make every parking space handicap because you have a small amount that want a handicap parking space. in regard to why we're having this debate, we must decide are we willing to abandon genetics and accepted science and biology as fact?
or will we consider what a person's desired self image is as fact. if we choose a person's desired self image over reality, then we have to question how this board will handle the 42-year-old teacher who truly feels inside he's a 16-year-old boy and ought
to be able to have physical relations with students. if i truly feel inside me beats the heart of a cherokee, and i don't want to demean the lady that just spoke, but i can't put that on my college admission as a native american, because i really feel like
that's way i am on the inside. i'm not entitled to tuition assistance that an american indian gets. does that mean i'm discriminated against? and i'm going to suffer hardship, ridicule, and rejection because
of genetics, accepted science, and biology? i'm not native american. please, you're not caving to pressure from special interest groups. they have no stake in the education of my children. rather listen to the parents
whose children are being adversely affected if we choose this course of action. and i know you understand that whatever legislature you put forth, it will not stop bullying in the school system. so, this won't help with the bullying situation.
>> luke shook and luke will be followed by sherry lynn shields. >> is it night yet? pretty close. >> getting there. >> my name is luke shook. i just recently moved here from the dreaded state of north carolina, i guess.
i came here not knowing what i was going to say. i got a lot of different insights from two different perspectives. from my understanding of how the conversation has been, it is the lbgt community is already unsafe in the school
they've already given numerous accounts of being bullied and not feeling safe. with that type of environment, how is it that these people that are bullying them now, how is it that by letting them go to the bathroom or the locker room or being on a football team
or a basketball team -- i don't see how that's going to make the situation any better. i've got a nine-year-old girl and a seven month old girl. i have to make a big decision. i represent my family. i am the father figure.
i have to make the right decisions. and the right decisions for my family, if this passes, is that they will not attend any public school. now whether they go to private school or we homeschool, that's my decision.
but from what i understand right now, especially in detroit there's a big money issue. in north carolina, the governor is under attack. and the federal government saying we're not going to give them all this money, well, are we making our decisions off
of money or are we doing it for what is right? i do believe that there's an agenda that's going around our nation and throughout the world. i would just ask you to not cave in to it. the destruction of the family.
and i would propose maybe just-- i would propose an easy solution would be to get jesus back in the classroom. and once we start teaching the bible again, children won't be as inclined to be the bullies and haters and all that. i would propose to start
teaching the bible again. >> okay, are there two terry lynn shields here? >> no, just me. >> okay, so there are two forms for terry lynn shields. so, can you come to the table? >> so she gets six minutes. >> creative, but no.
>> and she'll be followed by angela vannik. >> i'm sorry, i didn't hear you. >> i'm telling angela vannik, she'll be after terry lynn. >> okay, my name is terry lynn shields. i'm a mom of three grown daughters and a grandma of ten
and great grandmother of three. i love the fact that you guys stayed so late to hear every one of us. i appreciate it and i'm excited about it. however, i'm not excited about your proposal. and it's not because i'm against
lbgtq. not at all. it's because my grandchildren are not taken into consideration in this proposal. and i think, to be fair, all children's feelings need to be considered. back when i was 11 years old
and maybe some of you do, too. i'm sure you do. probably, you're all younger than i am, when we went to gym class, we had to take a shower after gym. it was so embarrassing to take our clothes off in front of other girls, much less boys.
and if boys are allowed in the locker room or allowed in the shower rooms, it's going to be even worse. and a lot of times, i would take a demerit instead of removing my clothes. because i was embarrassed about my body, maybe.
maybe you're embarrassed because you're too chubby or maybe you're embarrassed because you're not as developed as somebody else. it's a hard world to live in. we all grow up with our problems. but i ask you, please, to table
this proposal. it doesn't cover everybody. we need something that covers everybody's feelings. everybody's shortcomings. i ask you that, please. and thank you for listening to me. >> angela vannik, followed
by cynthia caviak. >> i thank you for this opportunity to speak. i'm a little nervous, so i'll just read what i wrote. there are several concerns with the proposal and i'm going to stick to a few that i see. the potential new policy
is opening a door for misuse and abuse in many different ways. an open door policy also increases chance of sexual misconduct and violation. what would be the guidelines if these changes take place? would there be regulations
for everyone? would there be staff monitoring every school restroom, locker room, ensuring everyone's safety? as of right now, it seems the school district already fails at this. there are enough school fights
that occur in the school bathroom and locker room as it is. and prevention isn't a strong suit in the school. i don't have any discrimination against the lgbtq community but i do have a problem with number three on the draft along
with a few others. as a parent, i don't think the school or state should have the right to allow my child to keep anything from me, including their self identity or encouraging them in any way in sexual orientation by promoting lgbt material.
this is creating a system of dishonesty. the school should be responsible for teaching them work-based skills and a solid education and that's it. so, where would the line be drawn for a secret lifestyle. the school and state do not take
responsibility when a person from society fails to follow the law. and i asked my 11-year-old about how she felt about male students being able to use the female restroom or locker room at school as the saw fit for their identity of the day,
and she replied, she would just hold it until she came home. my daughter was a patient for what was called nephrotic syndrome. we currently have it under control but to hold her urine for an entire day would be medically dangerous.
where is the safety concern for all students? there needs to be a better way in our school system that is considerate for all students. >> cynthia pentiak. is that how you say it? is she here? okay.
eric and holly herron. and they'll be followed by-- nope, frank vame is not here. reverend christopher toma. >> i believe i've been waiting along with you about 7.5 hours to get to this spot. i was a member and an a member of the michigan education
association for 15 years. i've taught in elementary school. i'm a parent of three daughters. i guess what amazes me is the boost you're inadvertently giving to the home schooling community. because, traditionally, people
my age who are interested in home schooling face a huge amount of pushback by their and i'm seeing grandparents and reading comments of them telling us to pull our kids out of the public schools because of this. i have a daughter in third grade
and i am the type of parent you want in public schools. i donate my time and support every child, not just my own. so for this counterproductive push to happen to the public schools, of which i want to see succeed, it's tragic. i can't imagine what it would be
like to feel every day that somehow i was a mistake. something went wrong when i was made. and instead of the adults i trusted showing me that i was not a mistake and that i am exactly who i was meant to be inside and out, those adults
encouraged my confusion and hurt. i promise you are not helping these kids by doing this. i listened to many transgendered individuals today and i have heard their brokenness and i have compassion and i think the reason the issue is so
difficult is because those who want to stand on truth and science and facts being taught in our public school systems, we have compassion for people who are genuinely conflicted. we see it. we don't know why, but it isn't
helping anybody to put this proposal forward. i realize it's popular and a hot topic right now, but this is not right. for me as a teacher to be forced to refer to a child as a gender that is not on their birth certificate, i believe you are
requiring me to falsify legal documents. not only are you asking children to keep secrets but you're asking us to lie. aside from the issue of sexual morality, we should not lie. we should not keep secrets. and we should want what's best
i would never be unkind to people who are different from me. but there is a type of reverse discrimination where young people today are telling me they are going to homeschool their children because homosexual activists have all
the power in high schools. and anyone who holds a philosophical or religious belief opposite to that is persecuted. this is not an even playing field and not right. we can do better. >> reverend christopher toma.
followed by tim totten. >> three minutes for a preacher is not a lot of time. >> we know you can do it. >> we'll see. i did not come with a prepared statement. although, i'm listening and taking a lot of notes.
i should start out by saying that i don't intend to speak from a theological perspective. i'll let my appearance communicate to you where i most likely stand on this issue, although the church is largely at fault for being a confusing point of origin
with regard to the word of god. i do not support this. now, again, i do not want to speak theologically, but i feel i'm doing a disservice if i do not tell you as a called and ordained servant of christ, proclaiming his word in the world, romans chapter
one makes it very clear that people wanted this and they wanted this and they wanted this and three times the apostle paul says, and god gave them over. in other words god gives up and eventually gives you what you want and things come undone. so there.
i will leave that theology. approaching as simply as a citizen, you are serving me and you are serving the people who have come this day to testify before you. thirdly, i'm the pastor of a parochial lutheran school, i can tell you for a fact that
since this particular proposal came to light, there are many, many, requests coming to our congregation and school with regard to parochial education. i believe that you will lose a lot of students over this issue. now, just to continue.
some observations that i've made at least. talking about how this is not a biological issue and yet the point has been made throughout with regard to what we desire to do, biologically just seems silly to me. second, i find it peculiar
that a lot of the statistics on bullying and transgender and molesting and the like are largely connected to a common denominator of single or foster family homes. does this not point to the importance of mothers and fathers together
in the family? and thirdly, on behalf of the church now, when the homeless need shelter, when they need food, when the scourge of war has produced orphans and widows, throughout history, it's been the church that has come forward to help these
people for 2000 years. a lot longer than any of you in the government. and it's a straw argument to make the case against the church that we are unloving or heartless. that's a false, false argument. lastly, i have my 12 seconds--
or 12 minutes that one woman put-- i merely would like to ask you, what are the contours of this argument from this point forward? i would like to know as a citizen of the objective contours of this statement or of this proposal.
where does it end? and that's the question i'm asking you. i know it's your job to sit and listen today but you're in service to us and we need that answer from you. does this end with transgenderism or does it very
soon include what is being teed up as transagerism. i'm a 43-year-old man but i identify as a nine-year-old. but i also identify as a woman and i have the right to access all those services available to nine-year-old children. does it go on to animalism?
where does it stop? those are very important questions that mean a lot to the citizenry and i would put forth for the sake of the record that you won't answer me this question, because you don't know. you can't answer it because once
it happens there is no going back. you set the precedent. i thank you and please know we pray, me and my congregation, pray for you daily. it's not an easy job you have. you are loved in the lord and supported in prayer.
i pray you will be discerning to the citizens you serve. amen. >> tim totin. and following tim tottin is william wagner. >> hi, i'm the father of two young girls. i couldn't stay at work, looking
at their picture. i had to come and say something. i'm against this proposal because of the observation of parental rights. i also want to call out the economic ideology driving a lot of the way this was written that the elevation
of the creative class, elites to transform our cities creates great division, class division, and it's insulting to the rest of the lower 2/3 who are called out to serve them. and yes this proposal is a great boost to home schooling. >> ellie tingsted
and then thomas coats. is ellie here? is thomas coats here? is greg craddok here? >> i don't see any guys. >> jim elias? douglas kelsey? thomas kyusic? gordon rogers?
ronald rashwit? tom gallagher? walter luth from midland? john abbott? cecilia tombelly? okay, so everyone has spoken then? okay and then i need to read into the record something from
state representative lana tice that she sent to the board, which is input on this guidance. "i am writing today to express my concerns about the draft statements and guidance on safe and supporting learning environments for lgbtq students. below is an outlined summary
of the concerns i have. number one, lack of parental control. the lack of parental control and involvement is a major concern that must be addressed. page four, section three reads, "privacy-- you can find that in the statement.
i won't repeat it for you. the section explicitly prohibits without the express permission of the child school districts from notifying a parent or guardian about the situation with their child. for the board's own information, students who are dealing
with lgbt feelings are at a higher risk of suicide and depression. the fact that schools would require administrators and teachers to keep something so dramatic it's totally number two, use of locker rooms and bathrooms.
sections 4 and 5 of the proposed guidelines would allow school children to use locker rooms and bathrooms based upon the gender they chose to identify with rather than the one they were assigned research shows one in four girls are sexually abused before
the age of 18 and allowing members of the opposite gender access to locker rooms and restrooms is opening the door for predators to take advantage of the system. number three, sports. section six of the guidelines would allow school children
to participate in sports based upon the gender they identify with, rather than the one they were assigned at birth. this means that boys could start competing in girls' sports, like volleyball and softball. undoubtedly this could create
an unfair athletic advantage as you will be asking girls to compete against students who have the benefit of testosterone, which is a steroid, giving them an unfair strength advantage. competitive sports teams at all levels are separated
by sex for a reason and steroids are prohibited in sports because they give athletes who use them an unfair advantage. even if one school district chose not to adopt these policies, their students could be disadvantaged when they play against a district who has
adopted these policies. number four, lgbtq curriculum. my final concern with the proposed statement and guidelines is the requirement for districts to include lgbtq topics included in the sexual education curriculum and be provided
in the school library. the board does not include age limits in their recommendations and i have concerns about how this information will be disseminated to our children. this policy certainly seems intended to indoctrinate, not educate our children, or it
would consider the safety of all our students, not just a select few. i strongly encourage the members of the state board of education to reject this proposed no child should be put in a situation where they are subject to bullying or abuse,
but the answer is not to erode one child's safety in order to benefit another. it is entirely possible to ask schools to provide single stall bathrooms for the benefit of any child who would be uncomfortable using a normal gender specific restroom or locker room
facility. i thank you for your time and consideration. representative lana tice, state representative 42nd district. >> with that, is there a motion to approve the minutes of the regular meeting, the community of the whole
of april 12th? >> so moved. supported. any conversation/ seeing none. all in favor, signify by saying aye. >> aye. >> opposed the same. motion carries.
john? >> i wanted to thank everybody for listening to everybody. it was really important. i think the testimony you heard speaks for itself. the only thing i would say is it would be helpful to share with each other and, more
broadly, the list of the work group that worked to develop the guidance. make sure everybody has that. and the memo that the staff put together describing their historic work in support of districts and the growing requests and interest regarding
more guidance. that would be another helpful piece of information. and i would encourage you to circulate the list of organizations that have weighed in in support and opposition to the guidance, >> i'm going to forgo my
report, with the late hour. rick, this is your last meeting, i think. >> next month is my last one. >> all right, good. then, can we postpone your report? or you got something? >> i just wanted to share
something very briefly. a comment from a gentleman his name is rob laurence. he's the chairperson-- i should say the president of the birmingham, michigan school board. he does not speak as a board member but as a father
and church member. he says, briefly, between the years 2009 and 2010 i helped teach our church communion class for eighth graders. one of our classes included a child who self-identified as a boy. until that point i never met
or had conversations with a transgender person to my knowledge anyway. the child was thoughtful, intelligent and funny. the class accepted his gender identity without question. i was also accepting but i was far away from understanding
what he was feeling inside. over the course of the year, true understanding never really came to me. how could i ever understand the essence of finding myself inside a body that didn't match who i was. not understanding evaporated
simply by focusing on the needs of that child. we saw him as our student and it was our responsibility to help guide him and the others on a journey of personal passage and discovery. so it turns out that he learned just as i learned as a michigan
teacher of the year a lot about this question of gender to me, transgender girls are girls. that is part of my evolution as teacher of the year this year. also transgender boys are boys.
and that realization is key to understanding this notion of here kids belong and where should they go, what should they use. finally, i think that as an educator, i never want to cut out parents or parental involvement.
i think that this whole notion of parental consent is really largely an issue at the high school level, where there's a real, visceral fear, or a reality of being kicked out of the home. if you know that your parents or your responsible adult
is not going to let you stay and will disown you, then that's the impetus for this notion of why i, as an educator would accept the will of a child to say "call me by my gender identity name, call me by these pronouns, without necessarily consenting the responsible adult
first. and that's something that needs to be cleared. to your point, john, if we could take all these comments from all these wonderful individuals who came and shared today and revised these guidelines so that they clarify some
things, that would go a long way. >> so, next item is the approval of the special education advisory committee. tory is here, but we're not going to ask her to report. only if you have any questions. it is the normal nomination
process. >> i just had a couple of corrections in the information that was given to you. there were a couple of terms that were indicated to be 2018 that should have been 2019. so, i don't know.
if you just want me to give that to mertz or just mail >> yeah. we're going to postpone top ten in ten. we'll do that during the retreat. is there anything on state and federal legislation that
we need to go through? >> well, there is a statement created -- a set of bills regarding seclusion and restraint. so, i'll pass that on to you. >> -- and michelle are going to introduce that. >> do you actually just want
to move it to approval, or-- >> sure. >> that would be wonderful. >> do i move it? >> make a motion. >> i make a motion that we approve the-- this thing here. >> it's been moved and supported.
i think the statement is in line with the action we've previously taken on the issue. there's nothing new here i don't think, there? >> no, but we like to talk for 15 or 20 minutes about it. [laughter] >> thank you, eileen
and michelle for working >> thank you very much for working on it. >> did somebody support it? >> yes, it's been moved any questions on it? seeing none, all in favor say aye? >> opposed?
anything else? >> nope. >> all right, consent agenda? >> i move support of the consent agenda. >> it's been moved. is there support? >> support. >> it's been moved and supported
any questions? seeing none, all in favor-- oh, sorry. >> the only item is the endorsement. >> any-- okay. all those in favor say aye. >> opposed, the same. is there any comments by
the state board members. >> i've already given the -- >> you already reported your commission. >> yes, i did. >> i would just like to say, i met recently [indistinct] and they came out with this report so i just brought a copy
for everyone so you can read it at your leisure. >> i would like to say, i was very impressed by the testimony today and everybody's views. but, the people were very polite and orderly and respectful, and i think it was exhausting example of, as one
of the speakers said, an example of democracy. and i'd like to congratulate all my colleagues. >> yes, lupe? >> i want to go back to the agenda, because you missed something very important-- nasbe.
we have a deadline of june the 8th, and it's to elect or recommend somebody for president elect, and an area director, and then awards. but i guess you could go to our e-mail that marilyn sent, and if you have recommendations you can send them to me.
>> could we bring it back up at our retreat next week? that would be before the deadline. >> yeah, it should be. yeah, we can make time for it. >> yeah, that's a good idea. >> all right. future meeting dates.
wednesday, may 18th, board retreat. no official action may be taken on issues, although we may have a conversation on who you recommend for the board. tuesday, june 14th, regular meeting. august 9th, regular meeting.
>> you might tell them where the retreat is. >> the michigan school of the deaf in flint. retreat may 18th, starting at 9:30 at the michigan school for the deaf. >> and did they move the school, or is it in the same--
>> no, it's in the same place. >> we'll send some directions. with that we are adjourned. thank you, everybody.
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and the parents will rise to the occasion, because they will have to. they will have to learn those same lessons that you are teaching your children, and i hope that is a part of your plan. most importantly,
listen to the children. they are committing suicide. they are not getting a good education, and they are living in fear at school while they are supposed to be learning. listen to them. thank you. >> thank you for being here.
>> michelle trasber? michelle trasber? pastor leonard jackson? john howfu? howfu-- h-o-w-f-u? olga patrick? bill sage? >> right here. >> good afternoon, board.
it's a pleasure to be here with you. i wish it was under different circumstances. a little of my history: i'm a founder of constituting michigan, if you are familiar with the pledge of allegiance bill,
i wrote it. that passed. and i'm an ex-commissioner. i'm on two boards-- community mental health is one of them. i'm also on the regional community mental health board. i have read legislation.
i have written resolutions. frankly, this is a bad policy, you guys. there is a simple solution to this. and the simple solution is transgender bathrooms. not transgender, but unisex bathrooms.
that is a simple solution to this debate. now, it is not this board's responsibility to take parental rights away, because that's exactly what this policy does. in your heart, if you look deep,
you are going to know that. you already do know that, actually, because natural law is telling you that right now. you have heard testimony from many young children with no life experience. i have had a lot of it. and i have friends
that are transgender. do you think i judge them because they are transgender? one is a american legion post leader, okay, my friend. i play in bands. a buddy of mine named jason shows up as a woman and asked me to call him miranda.
you know, it took me two months to actually call him miranda, and he got mad at me for calling him jason. but i don't recall him going into any bathroom anywhere and getting beat up because he is transgender. bullying is bullying.
i'm short. you want to see somebody who has been bullied? you are looking at him right now. in high school, i was probably bullied at least once a month. now are you going to come up with policies
for short people? you know, you can't. you can't appease everybody. and again, it's a simple solution. i'll give you an example, and this is the danger-- you opening up many ramifications.
right now you are talking about superseding parental rights. you can't do that. it's unconstitutional and it's not in your room of governance. governance is here to protect the inalienable rights
of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for us-- we, the people of america. and once you work outside of those parameters, you are no longer working under those rules of governance,
natural law. natural law comes from god, as i am a christian. i was called a christian creature today downstairs-- do you know that? so where is the hate? i don't know if it was one of these kids that were here
today, but i'm going to repeat it again, they have no life experience. now, you've heard one lady with stats that told you that 80% of these boys that are transgender go back to being boys again. now that being said,
i'm going to make a comment. when i was young i used to wear a mustache just like this. it was fake. i used to get into all of the bars when i was 15, 16, 17, 18 years old. the age was 21 down in
indianapolis, indiana. i got in anywhere i wanted. so you know why i did that? because i was a predator for women. now, you open up that gate to all of these boys in high school as we speak and you will end up with legal
ramifications from it, and it is on your shoulders. because if any of these girls get raped in the locker room, it's on your shoulders. and as a board member, don't do it. >> david beal? david beal?
clinton eckles? >> hold on, he's coming. so i'm sorry, what is your name? >> clinton eckles. >> thank you. >> hi, i come to you today as a christian father and heterosexual male
that happens to be very saddened by the stories that i have heard about abuse and bullying toward lgbtq students and adults, as well, and i'm very sorry for that. i also support lgbtq students in the sense that they are
dearly loved by god, and they ought to be respected as individuals and as citizens in our community. i also happen, though, to strongly disagree with your proposal, and i think there is a way that you can come up
with a proposal that constrains bullying, accommodates all people, all walks of life, so that they can coexist, but without coercion. right now, what you have is not right and wrong being debated, but rivalries
asserting themselves, and when there are asserting themselves, there is always loss. and i would appreciate it if you would come up with a policy that does not allow a person to assert a right that disrespects
another individual. i know that's difficult, but i think it can be done. i'm also concerned about a leap into completely subjective relativism that empowers students to reject truth and command others to conform to their perceived
unrealities. if a person perceived he was superman, would you urge him to fly off of a tall building? certainly not. is two plus two still going to equal four in our schools? second of all, what state law exists that permits this board
to usurp a parent's lead teaching and guidance of his children? thirdly, your proposal places local school boards-- and by the way, the word option, or optional has been used many times. optional does not necessarily
mean it is not coercive and influential. your proposal places local school boards, superintendents, principals, and teachers into the crossfire of the cultural war. who now decides how far these shoulds that you have written
should be followed? and when a local superintendent, a man that i dearly love in my local school system, and a school board is sued for following or ignoring your guidelines, where will you be?
your reckless document abandons the very people you should represent. i disagree with the definition of gender identity as being a construct of an individual's internal compass, and deeply psychological knowledge of his personal gender regardless
of sex assigned at birth. i happen to believe that man is made wonderfully by god by his creator. i hope i won't be called a hater because i disagree with others who believe otherwise. you have opened the door for mass exodus of students from
the public school system, and mass lawsuits by playing god, scientist, psychologist, policeman, moralist and relativist. where is your research that applies to the fears and dangers felt by individuals that see a person that does
not look like their biological sex walk into a bathroom? you quote research from the other side. where is your research from even ten heterosexual, cisgender individuals? i would pray to you that the idea of empowering a
student should not usurp what authorities have already been established to put in place with parents. you quote two pieces of research on the premise of unsafe learning environments, but where is your research about what the learning--
that new environment will do to other heterosexual students? i'll just simply end with this: how can any christian, jewish, moral, muslim, or other religious person who holds the belief that god assigns a person gender in the womb and believes that god
desires that person to express their sexuality accordingly-- how can that person be seen under the language of your proposal as not a discriminator or as a hater? how are they going to be respected as simply a person who holds a deeply held
religious conviction? a safe solution exists in the unisex bathrooms option. what could be more safe than something that offers complete privacy? why the endangerment in the name of safety and why ignore parental rights?
i'm against the bill. my wife and i will have to make our own decision about what we will do with our daughter in the coming years, because she is in the public school system. >> adam ray? adam ray?
jerry styke? susan butler? kyla boyse-- b-o-y-s-e? >> she is coming. >> good afternoon. >> i'm here as a pediatric nurse practitioner, a parent of public school kids, and a member of the community.
and in those capacities i have seen firsthand the importance of a supportive environment for lgbtqia kids. i have seen how the robust accommodations and support that are offered at the university of michigan can support learning and safety
and that adjustment to college life. and i urge you to bring that enlightened approach to michigan public schools, by adopting these evidence-based, good sense, and voluntary guidelines. i thank you for your work on
this topic and thank you for hearing from me. >> extra credit. thank you for being here. >> kathleen biker? michelle dooling? jane kangus? >> coming. >> i'll give up a minute of my
time if y'all want to standing up and take a break. [ laughter ] >> i'm speaking as a christian grandmother of five students that are in michigan schools. i wish to express my opposition to your policy of the mixed-gender bathrooms
and shower facilities in our tax-payer supported schools. this is a slap in the face to all of our christian values as expressed in god's word. where is the protection of our family values and the logical moral modesty for our children?
i don't believe in bullying of any student for anything should be allowed. we have always had girls bathrooms for biologically built girls and boys bathrooms for biologically built boys, based on our christian values, and now, our culture has
created a third group of the mixed gender, and they need their own facilities that should be separate from the boys and girls so that there will be no bullying in the bathrooms or sexual assaults of any kind.
we could also have separate facility-- a unisex facility for one person at a time-- would also solve that problem. i don't see how your policy in this area will improve the whole atmosphere of the students learning the basic three rs that is your primary
mandate to do, so that more students can graduate prepared to make a living and to contribute to our country. >> glenn kangus. >> i'll try to be quick. i think basically i agree with the fella five people ago-- the short guy who got beat up.
i think we should all have compassion, you know, how you teach compassion and how you legislate that-- we should all have love and compassion for every student. i think that's a must. we have to agree on that. but i think that somehow--
somehow there is-- so i agree with the tenants of the great lakes justice center, their publication that i'm sure you have in your hands. i think that how you promote compassion is a difficult one, but i think partly-- you know, and this whole
issue of confusion, gender confusion-- i don't know what to say about that. you know, you have people on one hand. you have people on the other hand, and how you-- how you have compassion
and acknowledge the-- the confusion that's there, you know, how you deal with that, i don't know. but i think that his-- the gentleman's comments and several other people's comments about the single
occupancy, unisex bathrooms has to be one solution. because i don't think anybody-- i don't think anybody makes the argument that-- that gay students are assaulting other students. i think the issue that people
are afraid of is that there are going to be men-- primarily men, i would think-- that are going to take advantage of this-- of bathrooms, you know, and you are going to find young women assaulted. let's see-- so i think that--
i think that-- again, i'm totally against your proposal. i think that it's careless at a lot of different levels. and there are a lot of areas that have to be examined that can't be dealt with. now to end, i think--
i come from-- i-- i'm a machine tool designer, or a retired machine tool designer, and i don't know how you approach it, but i think you have to-- like-- like i do as a photographer, i think you have to-- and like i do in machine tool design,
i try to get everybody's input, which is what you're doing here, and then i try to think outside of the box, think outside of my own way of doing it, and think how i can resolve this issue, maybe in a way that hasn't been
discussed here, but-- you know, i think we're all in agreement-- we don't want any-- we don't want anybody to be beat up. we don't want anybody to be bullied. we want everybody to
experience love and compassion in our school system. >> amanda niven? matthew shepard? and he will be followed by kristen sheridan. >> hello and thank you. i'm matthew shepard, i'm a member of the u.s.
taxpayer party here in michigan, and secretary at that. just this past week, we passed a resolution and it goes as follows: "resolution in opposition to sbe lgbtq student proposal adopted april 30th, 2016. as michigan state board of
education (sbe) is considering to implement a policy to favor self-identified lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and/or questioning (lgbtq) students and use of gender-specific facilities in public schools, and whereas the number
of lgbtq students is relatively small in relation to the general population, and whereas sbe is placing an undue burden in creating a new policy to accommodate lgbtq students and the use of long-standing behavior and use of public facilities,
and whereas ustpm--" that's u.s. taxpayer party of michigan-- "finds the lgbtq sexual behavior dangerous, unhealthy, and immoral, and whereas the michigan constitution requires the teaching of religion,
morality and knowledge, therefore--" as i said, the constitution requires our educational system to teach these, not lgbtq. "be it resolved that ustpm stands in opposition to embracing the adoption of this policy in schools and calls
for the resignation of sbe members who support the proposed policy. end of resolution." my own personal standing: i'm over 20-- 20 years of decorated service. yes, we had lgbtq members in our military,
but we did not specify use of special accommodations just so they could have their facilities taken care of and necessary actions of their bowels or urinary system exposed. this is a drastic measure that you are considering.
every measure that has come down from the obama administration has been detrimental to this nation, and i would extremely hope that you consider all, not just the small portion of behavior that supports your proposed legislation.
>> kristen sheridan? stella shenaquit? okay, is shane shenaquit here? >> yes. >> hi. >> i sit in front of you as a parent. i identify as female, i present as female.
when you get down to it, nobody can see under my clothes. you don't know what bathroom i should use. nobody knows what bathroom i should use, because it's only my business. it's not anybody else's
business. when my child came to me and told me he was transgender, i thought a lot of things. i didn't understand. i was hurt. i took it as a personal affront. i wondered where i had
gone wrong. and i did seek psychiatric services for my child. and guess what-- the therapist told me, "your child is not confused, is not seeking attention, is not going through a phase, is not mentally ill,
and did not choose to be this way. this child is not acting out a lifestyle. your child is transgender. you have a son." and here we are, many months down that road, and i'm still struggling
from time to time. it's not easy on parent. it's not easy on child. i'm grateful to have access to a supportive medical team to guide us. we live in a supportive school district. our superintendent has been
wonderful and understanding, and he works with us to ensure that the school is an inclusive environment. he came with us here today in support. but he is learning, too. shane is not the only lgbt student in our school, and not
the only transgender student. our school lost a member of the lgbt student community to suicide in february. i didn't know the student or the student's family. i don't know his reasons, but i know that when he graduated in 2014,
our school was not as supportive as it is now. our community grieves this loss, and i can't fathom the weight of the loss his mother carries. i refuse to consider the possibility that i can ever understand what his mother
has to deal with. i don't care what anybody says-- i am not going to identify my child in the morgue. and if you can't understand that, and you are worried about who has what in their pants,
you need to seek some help yourself. i want to address some concerns that i heard. people that are convinced that boys will act like a girl to go into the girl's room, please raise your sons to know that is an inappropriate
behavior and they should don't that. those of you determined to keep these unknown sexual predators out of the girl's room where your daughters are, i want to know why it is okay to leave them in the boys room with your sons.
at least acknowledge that there are female predators, that there are same sex predators, that there are heterosexual predators, and that there are cisgender predators. and stop hiding your fear of men behind the imaginary fear
of the transgender student. you are so worried about keeping men out of the girls room you fail to realize you are putting them back into the girls room-- boys like shane, who, for the most part, is accepted as he presents--
if shane returns to the girls room, they are not going to be happy to see him there. and how will you ensure these kids are in the right bathrooms? are we going to employ a panty checker at every bathroom
door? because that includes everybody's kids. it doesn't include the kids that you think is obviously transgender only. your little girls that you are so worried about, they are going to have their
panties checked, too. make no mistake. that's obviously not as good a plan as the one that the state board has considered today. a lot of people pee where they are comfortable. private bathrooms should be available for those who
want them. but they should not be the only option. my gender is not neutral. your gender is not neutral. not too many people are. >> shane shenaquit. >> my name is shane, and i'm a transgender freshman
at adrian high school, and i'm glad i'm able to speak here. in an ideal world, all children would tell their parents if they are struggling with something. unfortunately, we live in a world where there are adults
in our lives who not only refuse to accept or support their child, but may even become abusive if the child were to share that they are gay, they are lesbian, bisexual, or transgender. i'm lucky to have a really supportive home environment,
medical environment, and therapeutic team. but because some of us do not, it's even more important to have a supportive allowing students to change their name on informal records and request to be addressed by the appropriate pronouns in
the absence of parental knowledge isn't keeping things from the parents. it isn't about taking over the parental role. it is about providing the student who may have no other source of support one safe place to land.
when i first came out to my choir teacher and he was open and accepting, i felt incredibly confident and so much more comfortable in my own skin. when somebody addresses me as shane, or he, or sir, my self-esteem and mood
shoot through the roof. who wouldn't want a kid to feel good about themselves, to experience euphoria like i did? most people are comfortable with the name they were given at birth. they don't give it
a second thought. being addressed by my female birth name is like the noise a fork makes on a plate-- it's all wrong. i have an unusual last name. i have only been in the school system for 18 months, and most people do not know
what my birth name is. but as soon as it is read over the pa to the whole class with my last name attached, it starts. people find a new wound to pick at, something to hang over my head and constantly remind me of whenever
they please. it makes me miserable. why is this okay? kids pick on-- kids pick on me, discuss my genitals, my birth name, in hopes of getting a rise out of me. they don't go over the edge
enough to be considered bullying, but they push and push in hopes that i will react. it gets extreme, it gets vulgar, and i don't always feel safe. trust me when i tell you i want in and out as quickly
as possible. i have five minutes between classes, and no interest in spending as much time in the bathroom. it shouldn't be a big deal: boys use the boys room, and girls use the girls room. i use the boys room.
we're here to learn, not to harass and discriminate. this whole thing is a version of the colored and white drinking fountains in the '50s. being born brown or being born transgender isn't something that anyone can change.
we'll be fine. in reality, most kids are much more open and accepting of differences than their parents. if your kids aren't comfortable, it's because they weren't taught to love each other despite differences.
teach your kids. in 30 years we will look back at this time as much as we look at the '50s and wonder how we forced an entire segment of our citizenry to use different bathrooms over fear and ignorance. let michigan be on the right
side of history. >> shauna daniels. >> yeah, she's coming, and kathy garnot will follow shauna. >> hi, i'm shauna daniels. i'm not with an organization, i'm just a mother coming from monroe, michigan.
and i heard recently that this meeting was going to happen. and i thought a lot of different ways on it. i thought i would just come to listen to what everybody had to say about it. last night, i told my daughters
that i was going to lansing, so dad had to get up because he sleeps in, because he works nights. and my older daughter is 11 and she has autism. and she said, "you're going to lansing? i want to go."
she went with her class. and i said, "well, you have school, so you have got to go there." and the last question was, "why are you going?" and i said, "i'm going because they are talking about making a new rule where the boys can
come into girls bathrooms, the girls into boys bathrooms." "well, i don't like that idea." and when she made that comment to me, it was when-- i'm not normally the type of person to get up and talk, but i thought about it
and thought that she can't be her own voice, so i'll have to her voice for her, and she was very uncomfortable with that decision. so i'm here for-- for that, because i don't think it is right to make a right for
someone else that violates someone else's right. and her right as my daughter is to go into a bathroom where she feels comfortable also, just like everyone, where the fact is, the unisex bathroom is a great idea.
then everybody has their own, and they can go wherever they want to. short story, when she was five and a half, she decided-- with autism, this happens a lot-- she decided that she was a dog for about sixth months.
she crawled on the floor like a dog, she-- that was just what she did. and the doctor said, "it's normal, let her do it." and i did. but i did not go and buy her dog food. i fed her regular food.
i didn't buy a dog house. she slept in her bed, and i didn't go to the school and tell them to allow her to go outside to pee, but she wanted to. so that's basically all i wanted to say. i wanted to stand up
for the girls who want to go into a bathroom with other biological girls, and it's okay to have a third bathroom. >> kathy garnot, and carol brown is on deck. >> good job on my name-- kathy garnot.
i'm from alto, michigan, which is near grand rapids, in case you don't know. i appreciate you waiting for so long to hear all of us speak, as is our right in michigan to have our voice heard. i appreciate the work
that you do, too. i'm here against the guidelines proposed. i believe it's too controversial. the beauty of the u.s. history is we were founded on the judeo-christian beliefs and morals founded
in the bible offered by god himself. he is the source of truth guidelines should be based on truth. regarding some of the guidelines being discussed today, i want to point to the bible--
old testament, first book, genesis chapter 19. it tells the true story of sodom and gomorrah. sodom is the root word of sodomy-- a negative term which refers, in part, to illicit sex relations man to man.
the cities of sodom and gomorrah were destroyed by god for their sexual sins. next, in the new testament, book of romans, chapter 1 clearly lays out roles for human behavior which include not leaving the natural use of men and women.
this is god's standard of right and wrong not human personal opinion. in your proposal, there are references made to child sex at birth. the child's sex is biological, and not societal. children should not be allowed
to choose to do something like change names or sexual identity without parental consent. schools should not bypass public bathroom use is hard enough because of lack of privacy, with stalls that have
lots of peek-a-boo opportunities. it would be even harder with mixed use. also, not just children use school bathrooms-- adults use them too. a possible compromise would be to have all children use
completely private bathrooms and locker rooms with no look-overs, look-unders, or look-through-the-crack school bathrooms and locker rooms would have to be completely revamped to accomplish this. it's-- the guidelines won't
solve the problems you are trying to address. i'm praying for god to guide your actions for the future and moral health of our state and my grandchildren. >> carol brown? and donna secor pennington would be next.
>> live in lapeer. i'm a mom, grandmother. my children already have gone through the public schools, so it's really not affecting me in that capacity. however, i do have two grandchildren to consider. to me, this is not about not
supporting the lgbtq students. we all love one another, have compassion for everyone, like you should. what i find wrong with this guidance is it takes away the parental consent over their children, their rights, and also the rights of the local
school board decision making, and it goes against the constitution. and we heard testimony way, many hours ago from senator casperson that there has been successful outcomes with the guidelines, laws that are already in place--
that these issues have come up and they have solved some. i would like you to reconsider this guidance. take into account everything everyone is saying, and i think that unisex bathroom is a good choice,
a right choice. what i would like from this board in between now and august when you make up your minds-- i want to know-- because i don't know, and i don't know where to go to find out what specific
organizations or agencies have initiated this? or is it your own initiation everybody put into it? so if you would please address that online sometime, i would appreciate that. >> donna secor pennington. and lisa winchell-caldwell
will be next. >> good evening. >> that's not funny when you say that. >> the michigan association of school social workers stands firmly in support of the proposed state board of education statement
of guidance that we are considering today. this policy was carefully developed by a large and varied group of educational stakeholders, including massw, and i can report there was very strong consensus on the contents of the statement.
we all know that sustainable and effective change requires readiness, and the advisory nature of the statement affords school districts the flexibility to shape policies that meet their own needs based on their own timelines.
the importance of these guidelines for school districts is underscored by the reality that in a typical class of 30 students, 8 students are directly impacted by the gender nonconforming, or nonconforming sexual orientation of self,
of one or more siblings, or one or both parents, so certainly an issue that needs to be recognized. research suggests that teachers overwhelmingly believe they have a responsibility to protect and provide a safe
learning environment for lgbtq students. but less than half of them believe they are prepared to answer questions or handle effectively with an lgbtq student who is being bullied or harassed. only 4% of principals report
that their teachers have had any professional development regarding addressing lgbtq students. i'm reminded of a story that happened recently in grand rapids where a group of 3rd graders on the playground,
and a student calls another student a lesbian-- giving you an issue of bullying and harassment, but also, when they went back into the classroom, a child raises her hand and says, "mrs. jones, what is a lesbian?"
that teacher needs to be prepared to answer that question, to know what the parameters of her school district's policies are, and what a developmentally appropriate response would be. and yet, at the present time that is not the case.
massw also supports the recognition of the need for family engagement and involvement with-- with these students, and we appreciate that you recognize the role of school mental health providers, including counselors,
school social workers, and school psychologists. their ethical standards and professional expertise and skills qualify them to address the various needs of lgbtq students and assist in this very important piece of engaging families.
and their acceptability makes them very valuable to students who might not have the resources to go elsewhere. my time is up already. >> thank you very much. well, thank you very much. >> lisa winchell-caldwell? and karen palka is next.
>> thank you all. it has been a long day. it's like number 16 here. i'm with you. i'm speaking on behalf of the michigan coalition to end domestic and sexual violence as their associate director. i have 16 years of working
with victims, survivors, and engaging in the prevention of sexual violence. i think it's important to identify that several people have identified from both sides of the issue some statistics from the centers for disease control.
i want to thank and appreciate the members of the board that produced this guidance, all thoughtful six pages of it, before i get to the very specific bathroom issue that we spent so much time on today. this is in line with
the center for disease control best practices for preventing sexual violence, preventing suicide risk, and addressing health equities across several of the components and issues. we have spent a decade studying sexual violence
prevention, including understanding the risk to individuals who are transgender. most national studies put that at about 60% or higher are at risk or have experienced sexual violence. we are able to identify a
group of individuals that had that rate of risk, and not act on that issue, and do things we could to prevent it. in any other group, no matter how small, that would be a travesty. so any group coming forward
identifying concerns about sexual violence as their primary motivation to not stand in support of this legislation are not using the evidence base around what actually effectively prevents that risk. fifteen different states have
enacted similar legislation-- and not in the guidance format that you have used-- and none of them have produced any data that showed that it increases risk to non-lgbtq identified individuals-- not from state coalitions,
not from law enforcement that were available to discuss it-- there is no statistical evidence that this change would increase risk. it would simply reduce risk for individuals who need to access the restroom.
so we need to bring that component forward that is in line with improving equity and safety for everyone. there are survivors and victims that may feel uncomfortable. that is unfortunate. i have been in the tenuous
place where i have had to speak for both groups-- survivors who want something and those who don't. the reality of risk facing transgender individuals is too important, and too much of an issue, that i think that we have
to move forward with the guidance that you produced. i very much appreciate the thought, effort and evidence base that went into producing it, and thank you for making time for everyone to comment on it. >> karen palka?
and kelly rabideau thank you for your time. girls' self-esteem peaks at age nine, and goes down from there. that is research based. i'm the founder and executive director of a beautiful me. we are a non-profit charity.
we provide proactive self-esteem workshops for girls in grades 3-12 with a pinpoint of 5th grade. since 2008, we have shown positive outcome based data on the growth of our girls, and over 6,000 of them in michigan.
we provide a safe learning environment, and over the course of four, two-hour workshops, our girls flourish. at one of the many schools that i work at, the girls are not feeling safe. they are looking for a safe
place to go to the bathroom, but it's more than just the bathroom-- a safe place to change in the locker room, a safe place to play sporting events that they are playing with mixed company, and to also go on to
an overnight camp. society and title ix has recognized the innate differences between men and women and has respected these differences by providing separate facilities for showering, changing, and using the restroom.
this protects people's rights to privacy, and particularly, the right for children in a school setting to not be exposed to the private anatomy of the opposite sex. i believe in empowering our youth, specifically females. i believe in a safe learning
environment for all. i believe god did not make a mistake. i ask that the michigan board of education vote against this memorandum and-- for a safe learning environment to be upheld for all of our girls. thank you very much.
>> kelly rabideau, and katie blow will be next. >> hello. thank you for listening to everybody today. i'm sure it is a long day for all of us. my name is kelly rabideau, and i'm the mother of four
children and a grandmother of five. thank you for hearing my statement on this very sensitive issue today. and i'm going to briefly speak on two of the issues. giving transgenders the use of a girl or boy's bathroom
i believe is a crisis waiting to happen. i don't believe this will solve the problem of the lgbtq with self-esteem, anxiety or depression, not to mention that this will create uncomfortable situations
for the other students. i think we're putting the other students in an awkward situation to accommodate a small group of people. and then there are those who will take this issue and abuse it by-- whatever-- taking pictures
or exposing themselves-- you know, things like that. and then there are the bullies. they're not going to stop being a bully because of this. it gives them more reason to bully. for example, a transgender
girl goes into a boy's bathroom because she identifies as a boy. in comes in the bully. they can be raped, severely beaten-- horrible things can happen. this isn't protecting them. we're setting them up for some
pretty dangerous situations. the next issue is the privacy rule. the school and staff have no right to keep anything from us, the parents, especially something as sensitive as the matters of the lgbtq. this is a family matter
and should be addressed within the family. we as parents have the right to teach our children on the right moral issues. it is not the right of the schools to override and hide what is going on at school with our kids.
this is a very sensitive issue, and it's 100% unacceptable. and-- one of the things i was just thinking about-- it's not on my paper-- is that i don't know who wrote this memo, but i'm wondering
if they are parent. because as a parent, if my child were struggling in this way, i would want to know 100%. so i think keeping that from us is very, very wrong. so that's just a couple of things.
so thank you. >> katie lowe, and thomas nelson will follow katie. >> hi, thank you for listening. i'm here to speak for my children's future and education, which i feel seems to be a major lack of focus on
the state's list of major topics and needs to be discussed in this platform today. it's a difficult conversation to know where to begin, and i only have a short few minutes so i'm going to jump right in. a lot of the focus seems to be
on the child's sexuality and not the education anymore. my children are 5 and 8 years old. my 8-year-old daughter has to make sure her tank top straps are at least two finger widths long. the girls also have to make
sure that any dresses, skirts, or shorts come past their fingertips. and my 15-year-old niece at school-- the girls are not allowed to wear yoga pants because boys are distracted. but you want to allow boys
in the girl's restroom and vice versa. sorry-- i lost my spot. you can take away whatever argument you want, but you can't take away the right down to basic science 101. male and female,
minus the very small 3% of the transgender community. the men's rooms have urinals for centuries. men don't sit on the toilet to pee and women don't stand above a urinal to pee. this small 3% cause the state to pass laws and funded
bathrooms in all the communities-- it is ludicrous. our children are so far behind in education compared to other countries. we are a powerful country, but lag far behind in education. the u.s.
scores below average in math and reading. the american workforce has some of the weakest mathematical and problem-solving skills in the entire developed world. we score far below average and better than only 2 of 12 other
developed countries, and these other countries are not just superior to ours, but continuing to better their school systems and percentages while we have steadily declined and comfortably rested right where we are,
because the education system is failing our children. it is focused on the wrong things. you want to allow a 10 year boy named jeffery call himself amanda and think as their parents i don't have a right to know that every single
person in the school system is addressing him this way, right down to his school records, but he can't even go to school without shots unless i take a class and forfeit it. and i have to do that every six months.
regardless of religious beliefs, let's not forget to mention the fact that they are obviously struggling in some way, shape, or form. and as a parent, i should be involved. i'm actually floored that this is even up for consideration.
people are not going to tolerate school systems raising our children behind our backs. i want you to give my children an education and allow parents to be parents. as a parent, it's my job to bring up a productive human
being to contribute to society, and the school's part in that is their education. you are allowing and helping a child to live a double life, a lie. you want to talk about providing a healthy and productive atmosphere
for these children? the focus needs to go back on the education and academics. >> thomas nelson followed by linda karl-nelson. you guys are amazing-- what stamina-- holy cats. >> a lot of caffeine. >> thank you for allowing me
to speak to you today. i think this is democracy at its best. first, know that i am the father of six children-- five girls and one son-- 12 grandchildren, and three great-grandchildren. know also that
my one son is gay, who attempted to take his life as a young teenager. know that narrowly averted tragedy occurred mostly because he heard his father stupidly pontificate, unwittingly, the catholic church's denigrating doctrine
on homosexuality. that incident where i very nearly lost my most beloved son started me on a journey, a journey in which my statement here today is just one waypoint. it is a journey of working in ministry for the lgbt
community for more than 35 years. in those 35 years, i have met hundreds of lgbt people, listened to hundreds of their stories, and talked with numberless parents. i have learned far more than
i ever intended, and i cried far more than i want to remember. i have encountered every aspect of lgbt family trials and tragedies. it has been an experience beyond anything one could imagine.
i have learned, and i'm still learning. based on that background, i wish to comment on just two aspects of the guidelines-- and i think the guidelines are great. these guidelines seem to be generating some controversy.
number one is the concern i have heard expressed over the potential thwarting of authority of parents. some parents are concerned that they must be in the loop, no exceptions. i can understand that sentiment.
unfortunately, it is not a blanket truism that would fit all cases. i have witnessed more than a few family tragedies where coming out to parents resulted in disaster. keeping parents in the loop is not that simple.
it's a concept that ignores real life-- 40% of homeless youths-- 40%-- are lgbt. how do they get that way? my experience is that they are homeless because the parents could not handle the reality of their god-- their child's
god-given nature. sorry. i'm over time. coming out is the most personal decision. each case of deciding whether or when to involve parents should be considered individually, because it is
imperative that any decision must ultimately be decided by the individual person involved. no teacher, counselor or other school official should be compelled to out a young person to his parents-- that's it.
the second issue-- and i'll be very brief-- is the issue of the fury over bathroom usage. parental concern over a child's safety does not fit with reality. transgender people have been using the bathroom of their
choice virtually forever. i challenge anyone to relate when or where such practice has resulted in the abuse of a child. it is a non-issue that seems to be mostly the fodder of political pandering. concerned parents need to be
educated that bathroom usage is not an issue born of real life experience. thank you for listening. >> linda karl-nelson. and deborah moore is going to be next. >> good afternoon, and thank you all
for your patience and attention during this long day. my name is linda karl-nelson. i am a catholic mother of three adult children. my youngest son is a gay man. my daughter is married to a transgender man, and my other son is a deacon,
a married deacon in the catholic church. so we are a very diverse family. i speak today as a member of a faith which has been anything but supportive of the lgbt community. my husband and i have been
involved for decades as leaders in pflag groups and catholic organizations that work for the equality of gay and lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people in the church and in the wider world. as i read many of the negative
comments on the guidelines, i was struck by the frequent reliance on religion as an argument against allowing transgender students to use the bathroom of their gender identity, and the false assumption that males who are not transgender will use
those bathrooms as a means of viewing female students. that argument reminds me of the belief that gay men were responsible for the sexual abuse crisis in the catholic church-- a belief which has been debunked over and over. the real offenders were not
gay men, but men who were sexual predators. it seems that many, if not most, people who object to the guidelines do so out of fear and ignorance. the antidote to ignorance is education
about the feared issue. listening to the real life experiences of transgender students, which we've heard today, could go a long way toward opening minds to the reality of their lives, and their hopes for
the opportunity to live as the persons they know themselves to be. we're talking here about students in public schools, not people who use restrooms in a target store. arguments citing men, adult men who are not transgender,
frequenting women's restrooms do not apply to the school situation. according to the guidelines, transgender students will be supported and counseled by the administration and staff of each school that agrees to abide by the guidelines.
these students will be known to the staff and dealt with on an individual basis. any student who attempts to pretend to be transgender and use the wrong bathroom would be disciplined. once again, the public needs to be reminded of two things.
number one, these guidelines are not proposed as legally binding, but are available to schools who wish to provide a safe environment for all students. and number two, they were developed as a response to the request from many michigan
school districts for a policy that would provide an equal opportunity for lgbt students to experience a safe learning environment. i applaud the board for proposing these guidelines. >> deborah moore is next, followed by sherry dolbeck.
>> hello, everyone. i'm here today as a single mom with some very deep concerns as a mother and a grandmother concerning these. first of all, i would like to know how it was decided for who participated in the development
of these guidelines. i see where there were parents of transgender children who participated in this discussion. why weren't parents of those whose children who have been sexually abused allowed to participate to offer their
legitimate concerns in this regard? why weren't parents of straight children allowed to participate in this discussion? it seems to me this was a one sided discussion which is why i'm here today.
how is it that the rights of boys who identify as girls trump the rights of girls who are born girls? how is it that those of us who disagree are being called haters and intolerant, when ironically, it's those who are trying
to force this issue onto others who are being some of the most intolerant, hateful and bullying those of us who don't agree into compliance? if these guidelines are voluntary, then why have them at all?
why are they even being introduced in the first place if schools aren't required to follow suit? could it be that it's a step closer to slowly making them into law, and another step closer to eliminating parental rights when it comes to
ensuring our children are in a safe environment at school? the number of transgender students is a very small percentage when compared to those who are straight. how is it that this board is willing to sabotage my child's safety and protection?
how is it that this board feels it's okay to invade my child's right to privacy? before any assumptions be made about me, or any false accusations of who i am and why i am here today, i'm going to get brutally honest with you--
there has been pedophilia on both sides of my family. four of my five children were molested by their biological father. i fought for eight years to keep my children safe from their abuser.
mr. austin, do you know -- >> please, please-- that's inappropriate. excuse me, >> okay, i'm sorry. forgive me. >> please. >> i'm nearly 51 years old. i just recently learned a
couple months ago from my brother that my sister was also sexually molested by another child who tied her up and fondled her in a locked bedroom of our babysitter's house over 45 years ago with me in the next room and never knew it.
i have several family members who are gay, lesbian, transgender and bisexual. do i hate them? no, absolutely not. i love my family. just because i disagree with their lifestyle and i personally believe it is self
destructive doesn't mean i'm a hater. let me make something very clear. i'm not saying that transgender students would harm my children, even though i might disagree with encouraging transgenderism.
but i'm very concerned this policy would put all children at great risk and potentially open the door to be sexually abused by those who may pose as transgender students, but really aren't and have full access to restrooms and locker
rooms at our schools. i also feel this could potentially traumatize victims of sexual abuse and would be a serious violation and invasion of their own privacy. i also am concerned for the safety of the transgender student in using
the opposite sex restrooms, as others will be extremely uncomfortable and will therefore potentially bully the transgender student, creating an even more hostile environment. so this is a safety concern for both sides.
you have in the third paragraph down of the proposed guidelines the following verbiage: "research indicates that lgbtq students nationally and in michigan are targeted with physical violence and experience a hostile school environment more frequently
than their non-lgbtq peers." if this is the case, why would you be willing to put them in harm's way by allowing them access to bathrooms and locker rooms with which gender they identify? this is pure insanity. >> sherry dolbeck,
followed by christine hessler. to speak with you today. it's obvious that as i've read your guidelines that you put a great deal of thought and planning into them. and if i had been asked to come to your committee, i would have added a couple
of ideas. one is honoring. we all want to honor one another. we want our children to honor us. we want to honor one another. this is one of the fundamental principals that i live by,
because my parents taught me to honor my father and mother and to obey them. it seems that these guidelines as i read them are trying to undermine and demean the traditional foundation of family and parental rights and authority,
shifting society to governmental and school control of our children without our consent. consent of parents is very important. instead of parents, the school would be setting the standards
of morality and modesty, conduct, safety and privacy and acceptable risk. the school will be introducing and guiding children to choose their gender without the support-- with the support of lgbt counselors, with library
material to be provided, and outside leaders that parents may not have knowledge of. instead of supporting the parents by teaching children to honor their father and mother, you want children to be able to keep secrets from
their parents while expecting everybody in the school to acknowledge these secrets. your guidelines teach and model disrespect and dishonor to parents, to their values and beliefs, as children are allowed to keep these secrets from
parents and are encouraged to have a different name or gender while at school. i'm also concerned about all the students and their parents and the employees that are employed by the public schools who will be directly influenced by your guidelines.
all employees will be expected to receive training and maintain the climate of support that hides things from parents and encourages disrespect and dishonor. these employees will expected to agree to your agenda and terms of employment.
they'll be expected to yield their rights to free speech and personal integrity in order to hold the position as an employee in the public schools. it appears that you have failed to stay in your public role of assisting all parents
as they raise and educate their children. it appears that you've created these guidelines without fear and balanced research from parents who don't necessarily agree with your agenda. these guidelines to honor and respect the position
and authority of parents and public schools and employees is very important. please reconsider and rewrite these parts. we want all children to be safe. and i thank you very much for the opportunity.
>> christine hessler. and she'll be followed by connie chiapelli. it's been a long day. i want to thank you for allowing us the privilege to come here and speak our voice and our concerns. my name is christine hessler.
i'm married with 5 grown kids and i have 17 grandkids and 3 great grandkids and i have previously worked for a year with teens in the waterford public school system that were going through a lot and i also worked in a daycare as a latchkey coordinator and ten
years with children. my heart is for the hurting, the ones who feel different or left out. and the reason that all started with me is because i know what that's like. when i was 13, i was removed out of school and i was out
of school for a whole year. and i know what that stigma feels like when you have to face your peers at school. i may not identify with the lbgt community on their particular issue, but i know what that stigma feels like. it's a horrible thing to
be bullied and treated a certain way. so i'm here to say that i do care about them and i care about how they feel. i have a word picture to share with you so bear with me regarding my feelings about this memorandum.
many years ago, my life began to spiral downhill. my husband lost his job. more than once, we lost our house, our finance, and i lost my health to unforeseen problems. as i worked through my many issues, i often felt overwhelmed
and alone with what i was facing, struggling to have the changes i desired, thinking this would resolve my needs and wants. after getting what i thought was going to be the answer, a new tidal wave of problems arose.
and that's why i'm against this statement and guidance for safe learning environments for the lbgt student memo, for the same reason i just stated in my story above. see, it's like when a man goes to dig a well-- he only sees the surface.
he does not know what lies below. and there's a way that seems right to us often, like this memorandum, yet often the end produces a tsunami effect. the memo will shake the very foundation of our state and all the kids involved
and our grandkids. and i'm speaking for all the kids, the teachers and parents and your board members and our future generation. i collected tons of signatures on petitions throughout the community and almost
at a 98% of the people i spoke with had two major concerns, but the concern was not against the lbgt community. their two concerns were-- but absolutely against transgender or gnc students' use of the bathrooms and locker rooms of their gender identity.
that's where their first concern was. they did not want their kids in the bathroom with the opposite gender identity. and the second thing was the parents' rights being removed through the privacy and confidentiality of
a transgender or gnc student the student that would now be part of the school staff joining together and keeping that from the parents. and so my concern is for the safety of all the kids and the care for all the kids. but this memorandum is not
going to resolve that issue. let's reason together. let's find a better way for all the kids to feel safe and to have dignity. that's what it's all about. because if this is put into policy, it will not make anyone feel safe.
so my question to you is to reason together with within yourself as an individual-- not as a group, but as an individual-- as you come together. will this solve the deeper issue, the underlying issue? and thank you very much
for taking your time today and listening to us. i know it's been a very grueling day for all of us. >> you're welcome. >> connie chiapelli. and then-- >> hi, my name was connie chiapelli.
>> oh, good. >> and when i was born they said, "it's a girl." and when there was a man born, my husband, they said, "it's a boy." i am a woman. i am a mom, a mother. i have children, grandchildren,
sisters, brothers. i have a sister that practices homosexuality. i love her dearly and i do not change my stance on this issue because of it, because i want something more for her. this issue is a special needs issue in my opinion.
there are children who have special needs. the school and public have adopted different things to address their needs and help them function in society, such as a class or classroom-- sometimes schools like for the blind or the deaf.
we have, however, not disregarded the children that do not have special needs or learning disabilities. you see, the handicapped may always be handicapped. however, they're loved and have perimeters for functioning in a safe
and healthy environment. the deaf, the autistic, the blind, the paraplegic-- there are those that have broken bones that are not forced to participate in gym. the system isn't revamped to elevate them and disregard the rights of others.
you have no right to transform the system for a group creating a bullying effect in society. if you make everyone live according to those that are mentally handicapped, do you also lose what you have? freedom, your freedom. when you go to the doctor,
do you want to-- want them to treat you with a prescription you don't need, or do you want the doctors to give you something that will cause an epidemic? if the person on the street chooses to be a beggar and make their means that way,
don't you have a choice to support them or not? you are not made into a beggar because of their choices. would you force people to eat sushi because you like it or force everyone to drink liquor because you do? no.
just because someone has cancer, do you? do you want to receive chemotherapy treatments that are unnecessary? one day you were thought of. another time you were dreamed of. planned for.
other times, watched over, cherished and protected. without those elements, you wouldn't have then, in a structured environment conducive for your growth and learning. we need to afford our children the same things: a future
to look forward to, a hope to hold onto and a dream that can be fulfilled by giving them options of right paths to take. if you were to tell your parents when you were a baby or young child, "don't change my diaper-- i want to wear it forever,"
how much sense does it make for a parent to allow that? absolutely none. there are teachers and there are students for a purpose. when a baby is born the doctor introduces the infant as, "it's a boy," if it's a baby boy or "it's a girl," if it's
a baby girl. the baby did not make the decision and neither did the parent. someone higher than the parent and the child made that decision. we have to be honest with ourselves and others and stop
living in denial. denial is not conducive to healthy thoughts or actions, nor outcomes of a better life. if a gardener sells corn, the crop will come up corn. if he sells cucumbers, cucumbers will come forth. what is sown produces after
itself, unless the seeds have been genetically altered. lies produce lies. we agree, there is-- i agree there is a special need issue at hand. those that are gender confused need to have a place for them. not in the midst of those that
are confident in their born identity. i do not support this bill. >> jimmy chiapelli. >> my name is jim chiapelli. i don't know what more i can say other than what she said, but i would like to say i'm vehemently opposed to this
proposal. it's not the proposal-- that's a simple solution. the solution to that is that we have gender specific bathrooms for these people. that's simple. we've made it really complicated.
i guarantee you that's going to be a lot cheaper than losing funding for the schools from the people who say they're going to homeschool. here's my problem, okay: i'm tired of people coming to me and telling me because i don't believe the way they do that
i'm either homophobic or a hater, because that's just not true. i worked in the hair business for 35 years. do you know how many gay and lesbians and transgenders that i worked with and worked on?
listen, i loved every single one of them. did i treat them differently? yes. you know why? they have softer heart than a lot of other people. but that doesn't mean that we can allow-- when did children
start making the decisions for us and what we're going to do? listen, if that's case, then what we need to do is start saying, "let's remove all the senate and the house of representatives and we'll bring in a bunch of eight years olds and they'll run the country
and make all the decisions from this point forward." this is not a transgender thing. to me, this is an lgbt thing. this is-- they are trying to force what they believe on us. now, many years ago, i was a certain person and i lived
a certain type of lifestyle that was very inappropriate. i tried to convince as many people as i could that that was the right lifestyle because i felt the more people that i could convince, the more i could believe it myself. so in closing, i'd like to say--
i have 14 minutes-- i'd like to say-- >> seconds, but go ahead. >> i'm vehemently opposed i'm tired of them telling me that if i don't believe the way they believe that it's going to cause their children to commit suicide.
i'm just sick of it and i think i represent the majority and not the minority. >> beverly sue moore followed by ann marie reicher. >> my pastor, when he goes to speak, he always says, "look at me." so i'm asking you, look at me
for a reason. i haven't got a speech prepared for you today. matter of fact, i've been sitting there for 5.5 hours because i've come today to talk to you from my heart as a mom and as a grandma. i've heard a lot of different
things out there today, and the main thing i want to share with you today is it's not about love or compassion but about responsibility and accountability. and that has to do with you. i was thinking out there when ladies talked about
the boogeyman and i thought, "what about my little great granddaughter some day that's in first grade and she goes into the restroom?" you see, she's not afraid because she's trusting you, the school board, to make decisions on her behalf.
she's not even thinking about being afraid of anything. she's too young and innocent. so my heart today is as a great grandma someday that i don't want to look on the 5:00 news-- and i'm sure you don't either-- and see a picture someday of my little great granddaughter who
has been abused by a pedophile in the bathroom not because she was afraid, you see-- because she was too innocent and too trusting. so, i'm asking you today to make a responsible decision. i'm not for this proposal, but i am asking you to think
about this, about a little girl maybe in 1st grade that's been abused by a pedophile and her heart has to bleed with pain for the rest of her life. and god bless you. i don't want her blood to be on your hands. >> ann marie reichert and
jamie edcock will be next. >> she had to leave. >> victoria miller will be next. >> i come before you as a mom of a 10-year-old boy who is highly intelligent-- and we recently met with the board to talk about how we can advance
him because he's too smart-- and the next day met with the special needs team for my 5-year-old daughter who is severely behind. at my daughter's 18-week ultrasound, we were thrown onto a roller coaster ride that i wanted nothing to do
with. i wanted off that ride, but i wasn't allowed that choice. my daughter was born with a major heart condition which brought her into three open heart surgeries her first 2.5 years of life. unfortunately, that was
the minor issues. we have had so many other issues-- not eating by mouth. my feelings were so torn apart at that time. i wanted nothing to do with it. i wanted god to heal my baby. but you know what? he didn't.
i had to walk through the fire. i had to force a tube down my daughter's nose every day for a year and a half so she would live. i hated it. i felt like i was torturing my child, but i did it because i loved her.
it wasn't about my feelings. my feelings wanted to run out that door, get in the car and go down i-75 to the nearest bar in florida so i could relax a little bit. feelings can mess with us. feelings as a 14-year-old that made severe errors of judgment
that i have regretted to this day, so i just-- feelings and making decisions as a child that they could future beat themselves up over and over and over-- we all make mistakes. but i have a 10-year-old son who has watched and been put on the back burner because of
her, who has said, "mommy, i don't feel like i'm loved. i feel like you love her more." and i've shown him countless ways that, "i love you just as much, and you matter just as much," but she trumps the saw. through that and through my husband's cancer treatment,
i was able to build a relationship with my 10-year-old son who just wrote me a note and said, "i'm so thankful for the bond we have created through these hardships." i have an amazing relationship with my son and i'm thankful.
we can be real. we can be honest. we can make mistakes. i tell him, "okay, i screwed it up and i'm sorry," but i grieve at the thought that if my son was struggling with identity or-- regardless of that, there are a million
other issues that he could struggle with as he's growing up. growing up is hard and i want him to come to me, and i want the school social worker, psychologist to get involved and say, "we want to help your family.
we want to help your family bond." i want to be there for my son even if i don't agree with what he's doing. i did a lot of things that my parents were like, my mom would say, "larry, talk some sense into that girl."
but i want the opportunity to be invited in. if my son wants to be called susie, i want to know. i don't want-- i don't think it's right to the child or to the parent to be excluded from that. i want the opportunity to build
my relationship with my son. and no, life isn't easy, but you know what, i want to go through it with him. >> victoria miller, followed by hanna miller. my name is victoria miller. i'm from waterford michigan, and i have no children.
i'm here because i'm a college graduate and i seriously value student safety. i feel the proposed lgbtq guidelines for the bathrooms will hamper a school in its efforts to provide safe and to prevent student bullying. it will in fact solve nothing,
but open the doors to those who would exploit the guidelines to their own devices and gratification. for example, under the current guidelines, a 16-year-old boy, not a transgender, may declare himself to be a girl. he may enter a girls bathroom
or locker room at will. he may retain his cell phone. young girls could not request his removal. those girls have now lost their right to privacy. they will be afraid to change in a locker room or to go to the bathroom, or even
of going to school. those girls will become victims of peer pressure and bullying. when they speak out and say how uncomfortable they are with the boys in the bathroom, the girls will be called intolerant, haters and
transphobes by other students. i can attest to this. i have had this at college. i mentioned i was uncomfortable having a transgender in the bathroom, and they were like, "oh, well, you're just intolerant." i just mentioned that i was
uncomfortable with it. it's like, "i'm okay, but i'm uncomfortable." so i can-- this is a true story. these guidelines will create exactly what schools wish to prevent. the situation will cause confusion and fear in schools.
this is extremely upsetting as people, transgenders included, just want to use the bathroom in peace. so a solution: please don't take away the majority's rights of privacies so that a minority may feel safe and comfortable.
instead, let's find a solution that all students may feel comfortable and safe: keep bathrooms distinct and separate. you can use the bathroom that corresponds to your birth certificate. this will be safer, but uncomfortable for many,
so unisex bathrooms should be provided, and their use encouraged. i personally am uncomfortable using the same bathroom as a man and believe it would be safer for the students of all genders if unisex bathrooms were used instead of co-ed.
thank you for hearing me today. >> hanna miller and then karly allen. i'd be glazing over about now. you guys are amazing. i just would not be able to handle this. i'm here today-- i just want to thank you for letting
me express my opinion and the first amendment right. i'm actually against this proposal you have made on three or four things. the first one is you contradict your first thing-- on page 2, "providing appropriate and meaningful family engagement
supports." you turn to page 4 and you say that the parents don't need to be involved, they don't need to know the children's name. they don't need to know what goes on at school. i think that is wrong, because our parents need to be involved
with our children, because they are what they live with at home. they are the connection that we have to the outside world. actually, what happens at school is probably not as much that we gain our knowledge to go out into the working world through our parents
and the responsibilities that those parents have. and speaking of responsibility, isn't our responsibility and our rights as parents to make sure our children are safe? i don't think letting them-- what gender they identify with going into the bathroom
is safe. if you are born with an anatomically correct either gender-- whichever one you choose-- you should be able to go into those. i do say create unisex bathrooms, but the locker rooms you should keep boys
to boys and girls to girls, just because there is curiosity is on both sides. little boys can be hurt and little girls can be hurt. let us separate that and make that where they aren't. because i'm not talking-- transgender people, it's not
about them i'm worried about. what i'm worried about is the actual pedophiles that will use this to their advantage, because they will say, "you have given me permission-- i feel-- right now, i identify as a woman. i've raped that little girl,
i've molested, and i've done what i wanted to, but now i'm a guy-- i can go back to what i want." i think that is wrong and i think we need to stand up with that responsibility and say no, even though we're being peer pressured to change our
ideals to help them feel comfortable. i don't think it's right that the majority should suffer at the minority's thinking that they don't have the right. and i appreciate every one of you for coming out and letting us say this and even
coming up with this proposal-- the hours you spent working on this. but i ask you, please, keep our children safe. because our children don't need to learn about sex education at four and five. let them be children.
if i'm worried about what a 5-year-old knows what gender they are, they're not having a life. don't let us force this down our kids' throat. >> karly allen followed by michelle molina. karly allen here?
>> thank you so much for listening to us and staying so late. i know this has got to be trying. i just want to state that a few statistics i found: 3.8% of americans are lgbtq community, 0.3% of americans are
transgender, 96.2% are non-lgbtq completely. the statistics of rape under the age of 12 is 22%, 54% under the age of 18. in a given school year, 58% of 7th through 12th graders experience sexual harassment of some sort-- 62,939 cases
of child sexual abuse in 2012 alone. i couldn't find anything closer to this date. this is not an issue of equality or anti-lgbtq, but an issue of safety and i'm against the guidelines. it is proven that children are
not mentally capable of making responsible decisions such as tattoos, piercings, smoking, drinking, joining armed forces, and cannot consent to have sex until the age of 18 legally. so why would we entrust them to make a decision on what gender they choose or identify
with? i'm sure most transgenders, if not all, have already been using the bathrooms of the gender they identify with as adults. if these guidelines go into effect, it opens doors for predators as well as drawing
negative attention to the transgender community as well as the entire lgbtq community itself, and will cause bullying to elevate, especially towards the lgbtq community, considering that they are only 3.8%. parents need to know everything
going on with their children in and out of the home, within school especially. without knowing what is going on with our children, how are we supposed to support or counsel our children? it is bad enough children want to hide things from their
parents without the school staff keeping these things from the children as well. children don't feel comfortable talking about sex with their parents. talking about their sexual orientation or their gender of choice.
it's a very uncomfortable subject to speak to with your parents, and i'm sure all of us can understand that. but as parents, we need to know and be able to guide, support, comfort, and counsel our children. i'm completely against this
and i'm sure we can find a better way of keeping every child in the entire school district safe. >> michelle molina, and she will be followed by jos㉠ibarra. >> thank you for having us here. my name is michelle molina.
i'm greatly concerned with the proposal that has sat forth here in the michigan department of education. as a mother, i'm appalled that anyone would think that it's okay to let their children live a double life at school while leaving the parents
in the dark. not only is this an action preparing adolescents for secrecy, a life of dishonesty, and as if it's okay, but potentially causing family conflict and undermining parental authority. this is the reason people
are not able to vote and enlist in the military, buy cigarettes or apply for a credit card until they are 18. that being said, no one has a right to withhold information from a parent about their children, give false advice about serious life matters, nor
give consent to change names, choose restrooms, or about any other matter. it's my child and my right, period. the bathroom and locker room situation should be common sense. this is no reason to let boys
in girls bathrooms or girls in boys bathrooms. this is not going to accomplish the happiness or safety that the proposal thinks it may bring. it is the long run the student knows the truth, and i do not want my daughter to be in
a bathroom with any boys. do you really believe that boys care if a girl thinks that she is a boy? absolutely not. i personally understand that adolescent years can be a tough time for many children. and i believe that every child
should feel safe and free from harm whether in school or not. throughout the proposal for lgbtq students, this concern, safety, is highly stressed. that is bullying issue. once again, all kids need to feel safe, and if the school districts start to implement
and educate a no-tolerance for bullying, schools will be safer for all. that was written by a good friend of mine that is also a sister, but as a victim, i want to you hear this. this is not an lgbtq issue at all.
this is a safety issue for our a young man victimized his first child at the age of 11. so pedophile starts at a very young age. he didn't get the help he needed, nor his parents sought for help, nor the parents knew. i became his second victim
when i was 11 and he was 17. my daughter is 12 and i do not think it's safe for her to have a bathroom where anyone can just walk in. my daughter also feels that this is wrong, and she is very uncomfortable with it, so i am her voice.
>> jos㉠ibarra, and victor torres will be next. >> good late afternoon. thank you for your service. a lot of things that i had on my notes have already been spoken, so i won't beat the dead horse. but i wanted to ask you, what
is your plan to protect the lgbtq students once this happens? what is your plan to protect non-lgbtq students? because you're opening a door for bullying. you already have a policy for bullying-- you haven't done
anything with it. we need to set that in place before you go any further. i urge you to table this issue until you can get a handle on the bullying policy, because once you open this door, there is no going back to fix the bullying policy, and you
have to fix that first. there's a wise man that says, "line upon line and precept upon precept." you can't skip lines-- you can't skip things and expect a good outcome. i implore you to review this and set it aside until you can
fully ensure the safety of each and every student-- not just lgbtq students, but non-lgbtq students. also want to commend each and every one of you-- i've actually googled each and every one of you, and i want to thank you for accomplishments
you made who make you the people you are today. and i want to remind you that you did not get your accomplishments by feelings all your accomplishments did not come because you felt, "i don't feel good," or "i don't feel bad."
they were by hard work and perseverance. and i implore you today, do not let your hard work and perseverance be swayed by feelings and emotions. this is an emotional topic, as many of you have seen today. however, we need level heads
and knowledgeable people, not emotional people, making this decision. god bless you;. >> victor torres and linda cypret-kilbourne. my name is victor torres. thank you so much for doing what you're doing.
this has got to be extremely huge on your conscience. i'm coming to you as a father tonight, but i really need to come to you as what i do-- i'm a minister of the gospel. and it was very eye opening to be able to see so many different people's opinions,
so many people's stances and where they are and what they think. i sit back and wonder-- do all of you already have your minds made up? it's easy for me to look at that, and i wonder if anyone's thoughts and concerns
here adding up to make any difference in your life or in the decision process. and i think about the lgbtq individuals, and my heart goes out to them. they really do-- i really don't know what is ministered in many other churches,
but i know what we minister at our church. but i will tell you this, we don't compromise the gospel. but at the same time people are people. so when you take a look at this, i need to ask this question to everyone actually that's
involved in this. we're talking about discrimination here. why is it that when people have a particular core value or morals, why is it that they can feel discriminated against and nothing is done about them? why is it that they cannot
express what they don't want to be a part of, but we're expressed as haters. why is that? you see, in our church-- i mean, we love people, we really do. but i have to ask the lgbtq community-- do you realize
what is happening to us as christians? do you realize how we're being discriminated against? are you looking at that as a whole? here we have children, our children, that we are going to have in public schools
and we're raising them up with particular morals and values-- not to hate lgbtq communities or anybody, for that matter. but why is it that we get put aside and say, "who cares about you?" this is happening all over the place-- you can see it.
but i need to ask the lgbtq community, do you realize what you are doing to us? you talk about love, but do you realize the position you're putting us in with our children, as to how we need to be able to explain this and how we need to be able to explain what
is going to happen in the restrooms? unisex bathrooms is a very good place to start with. when we raise our children and give them an understanding of so many people's values and morals, and not to discriminate, against them--
but please don't forget we're being discriminated against, too. if you really want to talk about love then let the lgbt community come up with other solutions that would help everyone, not just this particular policy or proposal that i'm against.
>> thank you for being here again. >> linda cypret-kilbourne, and she'll be followed by sandy khell. and i'm here to speak about a different issue. [ speaking foreign language ] aka, linda l. cypret-kilbourne.
i'm from marshall michigan. greetings, my name is southern thunder woman, and i'd like to let the state board of education know that my right to speak, my free speech at the paw paw redskins school board meeting was denied by the president karen ayers
at the public participation portion on april 13, 2016. and as you know, paw paw is a public school system. i'm asking the state of michigan board of education to send a representative to the next paw paw redskins school board meeting to witness whether
i will be granted the right to speak at the public participation or be denied my right to speak again. the next meeting is wednesday, tomorrow, may 11, 2016 at 7:00 p.m. i'll be protesting outside before the meeting to assure
that my freedom of speech is acknowledged, at least outside of the meeting. indifference to the rights of native americans is racism, and this base american right should not be an issue. my comment in the april 13, 2016 meeting was to address
the racial slur of "redskins" of the paw paw high school, using the native american spiritual leader head as a sports team logo and the nickname of redskins. a redskin is a bloody body part of skinned native americans who were hunted for bounty in our
country's past. as you know, every child is entitled to a healthy living and learning environment in public school systems. the nickname redskin does not allow for this. my right to speak on the subject has been violated.
i'd like to say to the state of michigan board of education for its support and the resolution that was issued. a lie does not become truth, and wrong does not become right. evil does not become good just because it is accepted by
a majority. justice delayed is justice denied. give me my freedom of speech. i'd like to give you these. >> sandy cowell is next and jeannie kegel. >> she left. >> sandy cowell left?
>> no, jeannie kegel. >> oh-- here, this is sandy cowell, right? >> okay, and then let's see if michelle strange is here. >> okay. patrick rouse? >> he's here. okay, so, sandy.
>> the lgbtq proposal contains many complexed issues regarding our children. i disagree with the memo because you want to include the lbtq content in every subject such as english, language arts, creative arts, and health education.
in memo, it states, on line item number 5, and i quote, "inclusion of lgbtq topics in curricula in areas such as social studies, english language arts, creative arts, and health education, including sex education." in creating this memo, you are
alienating the two largest religious groups in this state, the muslims and the christians, who believe this information should be left in sex education classes. many of them already opt out of sex education for the religious beliefs because
they believe they should teach their children about sexual orientation and not the school. by including what the board states is the discovery of sexual orientation in every subject, you will force the parents from these two groups to remove their children
from the public school system. i read from matt sharp, adf legal counsel who represents 63 children in a lawsuit against a school district imposing similar proposals and the department of education. and i quote, "no government agency can unilaterally redefine
the meaning of a federal law to serve its own political ends. the department of education is exceeding what is legally and constitutionally called to do." is this board ready for this type of lawsuit? because based on our
interactions with the parents in michigan, you will either have a massive drop in attendance and/or a lawsuit from angry parents. i'm just asking you to stand with us, the parents and find a better way. this is not it.
>> patrick rouse and then nicole england. >> i'm here to provide my comments on the memo for safe learning environments for lgbtq this issue has plagued our nation with division. we have one side of the argument screaming to be heard and to be
set free and the other side closing their ears. i submit to this board there is another side. president obama recently said and i quote, "in democracies, everyone should want more information, not less. and you shouldn't be afraid
to hear an argument being made." i'm here to present this board with another side of the argument. this is a complex issue and we cannot handle this with the same tactics we handled every other civil rights challenge. it is just not the same.
in the past, liberation has brought forth growth and celebration with new freedoms. after the civil war ended african-american slaves were set free. did they commit suicide because they were liberated?
obviously not. when women gained the right to vote, did they rush to commit suicide? when segregation ended after the tiresome works of the late martin luther king jr. did the oppressed commit suicide? when the first african-american
was elected president of our great country, did he turn to commit suicide? the answer to all these questions is absolutely not. but with the transgender community, liberation has brought forth a lack of hope and more suicide.
this is not the same issue. a doctor from john hopkins university, one of the first universities to perform transsexual operations, and devote an entire wing to this service, finally asked the most important question: is this helping?
the answer was a resounding no. and they closed the wing down. more doctors came to the same conclusion after providing sex hormones and surgeries to over 500 patients. he said "there is too much unhappiness among people who
have had this surgery, and too many end in suicide." the cdc and the youth suicide prevention state "the transgender adolescent continues to have a 50% suicide rate." walter hire, who underwent gender reassignment surgery and lived for eight years
as laura jenson recently state, "negative outcomes are only acknowledged as a way to blame society for its transphobia." this memo you have drafted is not considering the idea that these actions will accelerate the problem. the gay, lesbian, and straight
education network and their report "harsh realities" stress the importance that every child learn to respect and accept all people. their report showed that the bulk of assault and harassment for transgender students happened because of
a lack of acceptance in the schools by other students. to become the top ten in ten, we need to focus on each student, not more memos and procedures. we need to set goals for our state that include the value of life, no matter how different
people are. i'm almost done. i have spoken with a number of faculty across this great state and they all say the same thing. instead of more rules from the state school board we need support to help create
an environment for respect for every student. there are already anti-bullying measures in the school system. we need to do a better job of acknowledging that bullying is unacceptable for everyone. we need to stop this memo and get to work.
members of the state school board,the lgbtq students need you to consider there is >> nicole england and she'll be followed by scott vonet. or vonek, maybe? i was here last month. i'm nicole england. i was here representing
my daughter who has been bullied by a person who identifies with the lgbtq community. i also spoke regarding my son, who has special needs. today i come before you again with a petition of parents who were unaware of these their response was, what?
wow. no, this is not okay. where do i sign? as you can see the majority of the parents who are supposed to be representing disagree with these guidelines. i also spoke with a person from the lgbtq community
and his response was, i think this is ridiculous. i asked him to be here today but he could not due to the prior engagements he had. but he asked me to read his thoughts on this. my name is matthew paulus. i grew up in the public school
system. as part of the lgbt community, with myself being gay, i face certain situations where i was bullied and harassed about my lifestyle choices. along with being overweight, it was something i feel no one should have to endure.
i developed a thick skin early and didn't really pay attention to the negativity surrounding myself. other kids in the k-12 may not take this approach. it may hit them emotionally harder than others. bullying is a huge problem
in the public and private sector of education and i believe the actuibs taken by the michigan department of education is not the right way. children, teens and even some adults do not know what they want at any age. children and teens,
specifically, are influenced by current trends and media coverage and the opinions and thoughts of others so much that they have a hard time making a decision on their own. i feel as though the proposed guidelines made by the michigan department of education should
not be allowed to pass. signed matt paulus. for myself, the law states children under the age of 18 are the parents' responsibility. they cannot voice on this matter but yet you are willing to surpass the majority of these parents who represent
these children. we oppose these guidelines and we think there is i do have over 70 signatures that i represent as well and i have a statement from last month. >> scott vannic, is that -- >> >> it's pronounced vani.
>> vanik, okay. and terrence redman will follow scott. >> all right, ladies and gentlemen, i appreciate your time. it's been stressful and emotional for all of us. i would first like to stay that
i'm a father, a step-father, an uncle, and also a mentor. other people i try to respect by giving my mistakes in life, as we've all had. i am outraged by the fact that the minority gets to say they stripped my father rights away.
all these years, everyone, from the court system has badgered about how fathers need to be more involved, how fathers need to step up. well, right now your decision is stripping my father rights down to be where i'm treated and looked at like the rest
of the population see most fathers in the united states, dead beats. we're out of the picture. but not all of us. there are those who are standing up to support and to be with our my children, if they come out to say they're gay or lesbian
or bisexual i'm still going to love them. there is a difference between saying as a father i'm proud of my child for being my child. i'm proud of my child for being a doctor. or i'm proud of my child of being an outspoken lesbian
or gay individual. there are three pictures to it. do i have to support all three of them? i have the right and obligation to support my children as my child and as their occupation. as what they do personally,
that's where i can stand my ground and say i don't agree with this. i'll support you with the best my ability. but i do not have to support that aspect of your life. with that being said, i appreciate your time.
and hopefully you guys make the wise decision over this. >> terrence redmond? >> he's not here. >> thank you for telling me that. crystal lynn musselman? sara giddings? wade happy?
and wade will be followed by john wilks. my name is wade hoppy and i'm a resident of van buren township and i'm here as a parent, and also i'm a businessman as well. i wanted to express my opposition to your proposed
policy. and based on a few different reasons, the first is that the current policy of segregation by biological sex is perceived to be discriminatory. whenever an action is slapped with that label,
it automatically seems to be out have bounds. we can't have discrimination against anybody for any reason. but that isn't really how our laws work. we discriminate against people all the time. our laws are designed to mediate
between opposing parties. that's why we have laws. and it always favors one group over the other. if the republic is working properly, the laws should favor the will of the majority. that's why we call it consent of the governed.
so to dismiss a policy because it's perceived to be discriminatory i think is deceptive. in addition, i heard comments that have been passed around by people who have supported this proposal and they have said that, well, opposition
of this proposal that is motivated out of religious principle is somehow disqualified. that that also is not be to considered and i think that's wrong because all laws originate from somebody's moral conviction.
all laws come from someone's deeply held conviction. as far as the law is concerned, the origin of those convictions is irrelevant. each citizen feels strongly about a policy. it doesn't really matter where it comes from.
they have a right to express that and try to formulate law. the desire to create a safe learning environment is itself a moral conviction and a demonstration of that very idea. also i heard the idea passed around that those who oppose
this are bigots. but restrained behavior is not bigotry. it's the essence of law. that's what a law does. it restrains someone's behavior. preferably, it restrains the minority's behavior. so, again, slapping such
action with the term "bigotry" it's not helpful in advancing the discussion. finally there is appropriate legal way to form policy to protect behavior if the american people want to let that happen. the legal way is not through
the judiciary or through bureaucrats, but instead through our legislatures. >> john wilks? and luke shuck. >> before my time starts, i want to applaud you for staying. you could have easily said "hey
our time is from 12:30 to 1:30. we're going home." and i appreciate you staying and listening to us babble on. i'm a father of four children. two of which are still in the school system. i'm deeply concerned about the course of action that
this referendum with take, in regards to the bathroom, locker room policy. as a former school teacher and 20 year veteran of working with teens, i can see the devastating consequences from allowing a young person the option to choose which
bathroom or locker room they will use. you're opening up the ability for our young people to legally view members of the opposite gender in the most private and vulnerable setting. it's not that i'm worried about the confused individual.
i'm worried about the predator. and our schools are filled with them. not because our schools are bad but there are bad people that go to school just like bad people who go to church and the grocery store. teenage rape is already
a concern for many high schools and now we're opening the door for predators to feed their fantasies and possibly act on their desires because we provide them an environment to do so. it doesn't make sense to abandon the feelings and concerns
and fears of 99.7% of the population to accommodate the .03% that call themselves the truth is, we know this agenda is not coming from students who are afraid to go to the bathroom. yet, if we allow students to choose which bathroom they're
going to use, you will cause a large number of students to fear using the bathroom at school. it would make sense to me if we had a one-stall gender neutral bathroom for students to use. a and i think that would solve
the problem if we had a few of those. after all, the reality is there is only a certain number of handicap parking spaces. why? because there's only a small number of legally qualified handicap drivers.
so you don't make every parking space handicap because you have a small amount that want a handicap parking space. in regard to why we're having this debate, we must decide are we willing to abandon genetics and accepted science and biology as fact?
or will we consider what a person's desired self image is as fact. if we choose a person's desired self image over reality, then we have to question how this board will handle the 42-year-old teacher who truly feels inside he's a 16-year-old boy and ought
to be able to have physical relations with students. if i truly feel inside me beats the heart of a cherokee, and i don't want to demean the lady that just spoke, but i can't put that on my college admission as a native american, because i really feel like
that's way i am on the inside. i'm not entitled to tuition assistance that an american indian gets. does that mean i'm discriminated against? and i'm going to suffer hardship, ridicule, and rejection because
of genetics, accepted science, and biology? i'm not native american. please, you're not caving to pressure from special interest groups. they have no stake in the education of my children. rather listen to the parents
whose children are being adversely affected if we choose this course of action. and i know you understand that whatever legislature you put forth, it will not stop bullying in the school system. so, this won't help with the bullying situation.
>> luke shook and luke will be followed by sherry lynn shields. >> is it night yet? pretty close. >> getting there. >> my name is luke shook. i just recently moved here from the dreaded state of north carolina, i guess.
i came here not knowing what i was going to say. i got a lot of different insights from two different perspectives. from my understanding of how the conversation has been, it is the lbgt community is already unsafe in the school
they've already given numerous accounts of being bullied and not feeling safe. with that type of environment, how is it that these people that are bullying them now, how is it that by letting them go to the bathroom or the locker room or being on a football team
or a basketball team -- i don't see how that's going to make the situation any better. i've got a nine-year-old girl and a seven month old girl. i have to make a big decision. i represent my family. i am the father figure.
i have to make the right decisions. and the right decisions for my family, if this passes, is that they will not attend any public school. now whether they go to private school or we homeschool, that's my decision.
but from what i understand right now, especially in detroit there's a big money issue. in north carolina, the governor is under attack. and the federal government saying we're not going to give them all this money, well, are we making our decisions off
of money or are we doing it for what is right? i do believe that there's an agenda that's going around our nation and throughout the world. i would just ask you to not cave in to it. the destruction of the family.
and i would propose maybe just-- i would propose an easy solution would be to get jesus back in the classroom. and once we start teaching the bible again, children won't be as inclined to be the bullies and haters and all that. i would propose to start
teaching the bible again. >> okay, are there two terry lynn shields here? >> no, just me. >> okay, so there are two forms for terry lynn shields. so, can you come to the table? >> so she gets six minutes. >> creative, but no.
>> and she'll be followed by angela vannik. >> i'm sorry, i didn't hear you. >> i'm telling angela vannik, she'll be after terry lynn. >> okay, my name is terry lynn shields. i'm a mom of three grown daughters and a grandma of ten
and great grandmother of three. i love the fact that you guys stayed so late to hear every one of us. i appreciate it and i'm excited about it. however, i'm not excited about your proposal. and it's not because i'm against
lbgtq. not at all. it's because my grandchildren are not taken into consideration in this proposal. and i think, to be fair, all children's feelings need to be considered. back when i was 11 years old
and maybe some of you do, too. i'm sure you do. probably, you're all younger than i am, when we went to gym class, we had to take a shower after gym. it was so embarrassing to take our clothes off in front of other girls, much less boys.
and if boys are allowed in the locker room or allowed in the shower rooms, it's going to be even worse. and a lot of times, i would take a demerit instead of removing my clothes. because i was embarrassed about my body, maybe.
maybe you're embarrassed because you're too chubby or maybe you're embarrassed because you're not as developed as somebody else. it's a hard world to live in. we all grow up with our problems. but i ask you, please, to table
this proposal. it doesn't cover everybody. we need something that covers everybody's feelings. everybody's shortcomings. i ask you that, please. and thank you for listening to me. >> angela vannik, followed
by cynthia caviak. >> i thank you for this opportunity to speak. i'm a little nervous, so i'll just read what i wrote. there are several concerns with the proposal and i'm going to stick to a few that i see. the potential new policy
is opening a door for misuse and abuse in many different ways. an open door policy also increases chance of sexual misconduct and violation. what would be the guidelines if these changes take place? would there be regulations
for everyone? would there be staff monitoring every school restroom, locker room, ensuring everyone's safety? as of right now, it seems the school district already fails at this. there are enough school fights
that occur in the school bathroom and locker room as it is. and prevention isn't a strong suit in the school. i don't have any discrimination against the lgbtq community but i do have a problem with number three on the draft along
with a few others. as a parent, i don't think the school or state should have the right to allow my child to keep anything from me, including their self identity or encouraging them in any way in sexual orientation by promoting lgbt material.
this is creating a system of dishonesty. the school should be responsible for teaching them work-based skills and a solid education and that's it. so, where would the line be drawn for a secret lifestyle. the school and state do not take
responsibility when a person from society fails to follow the law. and i asked my 11-year-old about how she felt about male students being able to use the female restroom or locker room at school as the saw fit for their identity of the day,
and she replied, she would just hold it until she came home. my daughter was a patient for what was called nephrotic syndrome. we currently have it under control but to hold her urine for an entire day would be medically dangerous.
where is the safety concern for all students? there needs to be a better way in our school system that is considerate for all students. >> cynthia pentiak. is that how you say it? is she here? okay.
eric and holly herron. and they'll be followed by-- nope, frank vame is not here. reverend christopher toma. >> i believe i've been waiting along with you about 7.5 hours to get to this spot. i was a member and an a member of the michigan education
association for 15 years. i've taught in elementary school. i'm a parent of three daughters. i guess what amazes me is the boost you're inadvertently giving to the home schooling community. because, traditionally, people
my age who are interested in home schooling face a huge amount of pushback by their and i'm seeing grandparents and reading comments of them telling us to pull our kids out of the public schools because of this. i have a daughter in third grade
and i am the type of parent you want in public schools. i donate my time and support every child, not just my own. so for this counterproductive push to happen to the public schools, of which i want to see succeed, it's tragic. i can't imagine what it would be
like to feel every day that somehow i was a mistake. something went wrong when i was made. and instead of the adults i trusted showing me that i was not a mistake and that i am exactly who i was meant to be inside and out, those adults
encouraged my confusion and hurt. i promise you are not helping these kids by doing this. i listened to many transgendered individuals today and i have heard their brokenness and i have compassion and i think the reason the issue is so
difficult is because those who want to stand on truth and science and facts being taught in our public school systems, we have compassion for people who are genuinely conflicted. we see it. we don't know why, but it isn't
helping anybody to put this proposal forward. i realize it's popular and a hot topic right now, but this is not right. for me as a teacher to be forced to refer to a child as a gender that is not on their birth certificate, i believe you are
requiring me to falsify legal documents. not only are you asking children to keep secrets but you're asking us to lie. aside from the issue of sexual morality, we should not lie. we should not keep secrets. and we should want what's best
i would never be unkind to people who are different from me. but there is a type of reverse discrimination where young people today are telling me they are going to homeschool their children because homosexual activists have all
the power in high schools. and anyone who holds a philosophical or religious belief opposite to that is persecuted. this is not an even playing field and not right. we can do better. >> reverend christopher toma.
followed by tim totten. >> three minutes for a preacher is not a lot of time. >> we know you can do it. >> we'll see. i did not come with a prepared statement. although, i'm listening and taking a lot of notes.
i should start out by saying that i don't intend to speak from a theological perspective. i'll let my appearance communicate to you where i most likely stand on this issue, although the church is largely at fault for being a confusing point of origin
with regard to the word of god. i do not support this. now, again, i do not want to speak theologically, but i feel i'm doing a disservice if i do not tell you as a called and ordained servant of christ, proclaiming his word in the world, romans chapter
one makes it very clear that people wanted this and they wanted this and they wanted this and three times the apostle paul says, and god gave them over. in other words god gives up and eventually gives you what you want and things come undone. so there.
i will leave that theology. approaching as simply as a citizen, you are serving me and you are serving the people who have come this day to testify before you. thirdly, i'm the pastor of a parochial lutheran school, i can tell you for a fact that
since this particular proposal came to light, there are many, many, requests coming to our congregation and school with regard to parochial education. i believe that you will lose a lot of students over this issue. now, just to continue.
some observations that i've made at least. talking about how this is not a biological issue and yet the point has been made throughout with regard to what we desire to do, biologically just seems silly to me. second, i find it peculiar
that a lot of the statistics on bullying and transgender and molesting and the like are largely connected to a common denominator of single or foster family homes. does this not point to the importance of mothers and fathers together
in the family? and thirdly, on behalf of the church now, when the homeless need shelter, when they need food, when the scourge of war has produced orphans and widows, throughout history, it's been the church that has come forward to help these
people for 2000 years. a lot longer than any of you in the government. and it's a straw argument to make the case against the church that we are unloving or heartless. that's a false, false argument. lastly, i have my 12 seconds--
or 12 minutes that one woman put-- i merely would like to ask you, what are the contours of this argument from this point forward? i would like to know as a citizen of the objective contours of this statement or of this proposal.
where does it end? and that's the question i'm asking you. i know it's your job to sit and listen today but you're in service to us and we need that answer from you. does this end with transgenderism or does it very
soon include what is being teed up as transagerism. i'm a 43-year-old man but i identify as a nine-year-old. but i also identify as a woman and i have the right to access all those services available to nine-year-old children. does it go on to animalism?
where does it stop? those are very important questions that mean a lot to the citizenry and i would put forth for the sake of the record that you won't answer me this question, because you don't know. you can't answer it because once
it happens there is no going back. you set the precedent. i thank you and please know we pray, me and my congregation, pray for you daily. it's not an easy job you have. you are loved in the lord and supported in prayer.
i pray you will be discerning to the citizens you serve. amen. >> tim totin. and following tim tottin is william wagner. >> hi, i'm the father of two young girls. i couldn't stay at work, looking
at their picture. i had to come and say something. i'm against this proposal because of the observation of parental rights. i also want to call out the economic ideology driving a lot of the way this was written that the elevation
of the creative class, elites to transform our cities creates great division, class division, and it's insulting to the rest of the lower 2/3 who are called out to serve them. and yes this proposal is a great boost to home schooling. >> ellie tingsted
and then thomas coats. is ellie here? is thomas coats here? is greg craddok here? >> i don't see any guys. >> jim elias? douglas kelsey? thomas kyusic? gordon rogers?
ronald rashwit? tom gallagher? walter luth from midland? john abbott? cecilia tombelly? okay, so everyone has spoken then? okay and then i need to read into the record something from
state representative lana tice that she sent to the board, which is input on this guidance. "i am writing today to express my concerns about the draft statements and guidance on safe and supporting learning environments for lgbtq students. below is an outlined summary
of the concerns i have. number one, lack of parental control. the lack of parental control and involvement is a major concern that must be addressed. page four, section three reads, "privacy-- you can find that in the statement.
i won't repeat it for you. the section explicitly prohibits without the express permission of the child school districts from notifying a parent or guardian about the situation with their child. for the board's own information, students who are dealing
with lgbt feelings are at a higher risk of suicide and depression. the fact that schools would require administrators and teachers to keep something so dramatic it's totally number two, use of locker rooms and bathrooms.
sections 4 and 5 of the proposed guidelines would allow school children to use locker rooms and bathrooms based upon the gender they chose to identify with rather than the one they were assigned research shows one in four girls are sexually abused before
the age of 18 and allowing members of the opposite gender access to locker rooms and restrooms is opening the door for predators to take advantage of the system. number three, sports. section six of the guidelines would allow school children
to participate in sports based upon the gender they identify with, rather than the one they were assigned at birth. this means that boys could start competing in girls' sports, like volleyball and softball. undoubtedly this could create
an unfair athletic advantage as you will be asking girls to compete against students who have the benefit of testosterone, which is a steroid, giving them an unfair strength advantage. competitive sports teams at all levels are separated
by sex for a reason and steroids are prohibited in sports because they give athletes who use them an unfair advantage. even if one school district chose not to adopt these policies, their students could be disadvantaged when they play against a district who has
adopted these policies. number four, lgbtq curriculum. my final concern with the proposed statement and guidelines is the requirement for districts to include lgbtq topics included in the sexual education curriculum and be provided
in the school library. the board does not include age limits in their recommendations and i have concerns about how this information will be disseminated to our children. this policy certainly seems intended to indoctrinate, not educate our children, or it
would consider the safety of all our students, not just a select few. i strongly encourage the members of the state board of education to reject this proposed no child should be put in a situation where they are subject to bullying or abuse,
but the answer is not to erode one child's safety in order to benefit another. it is entirely possible to ask schools to provide single stall bathrooms for the benefit of any child who would be uncomfortable using a normal gender specific restroom or locker room
facility. i thank you for your time and consideration. representative lana tice, state representative 42nd district. >> with that, is there a motion to approve the minutes of the regular meeting, the community of the whole
of april 12th? >> so moved. supported. any conversation/ seeing none. all in favor, signify by saying aye. >> aye. >> opposed the same. motion carries.
john? >> i wanted to thank everybody for listening to everybody. it was really important. i think the testimony you heard speaks for itself. the only thing i would say is it would be helpful to share with each other and, more
broadly, the list of the work group that worked to develop the guidance. make sure everybody has that. and the memo that the staff put together describing their historic work in support of districts and the growing requests and interest regarding
more guidance. that would be another helpful piece of information. and i would encourage you to circulate the list of organizations that have weighed in in support and opposition to the guidance, >> i'm going to forgo my
report, with the late hour. rick, this is your last meeting, i think. >> next month is my last one. >> all right, good. then, can we postpone your report? or you got something? >> i just wanted to share
something very briefly. a comment from a gentleman his name is rob laurence. he's the chairperson-- i should say the president of the birmingham, michigan school board. he does not speak as a board member but as a father
and church member. he says, briefly, between the years 2009 and 2010 i helped teach our church communion class for eighth graders. one of our classes included a child who self-identified as a boy. until that point i never met
or had conversations with a transgender person to my knowledge anyway. the child was thoughtful, intelligent and funny. the class accepted his gender identity without question. i was also accepting but i was far away from understanding
what he was feeling inside. over the course of the year, true understanding never really came to me. how could i ever understand the essence of finding myself inside a body that didn't match who i was. not understanding evaporated
simply by focusing on the needs of that child. we saw him as our student and it was our responsibility to help guide him and the others on a journey of personal passage and discovery. so it turns out that he learned just as i learned as a michigan
teacher of the year a lot about this question of gender to me, transgender girls are girls. that is part of my evolution as teacher of the year this year. also transgender boys are boys.
and that realization is key to understanding this notion of here kids belong and where should they go, what should they use. finally, i think that as an educator, i never want to cut out parents or parental involvement.
i think that this whole notion of parental consent is really largely an issue at the high school level, where there's a real, visceral fear, or a reality of being kicked out of the home. if you know that your parents or your responsible adult
is not going to let you stay and will disown you, then that's the impetus for this notion of why i, as an educator would accept the will of a child to say "call me by my gender identity name, call me by these pronouns, without necessarily consenting the responsible adult
first. and that's something that needs to be cleared. to your point, john, if we could take all these comments from all these wonderful individuals who came and shared today and revised these guidelines so that they clarify some
things, that would go a long way. >> so, next item is the approval of the special education advisory committee. tory is here, but we're not going to ask her to report. only if you have any questions. it is the normal nomination
process. >> i just had a couple of corrections in the information that was given to you. there were a couple of terms that were indicated to be 2018 that should have been 2019. so, i don't know.
if you just want me to give that to mertz or just mail >> yeah. we're going to postpone top ten in ten. we'll do that during the retreat. is there anything on state and federal legislation that
we need to go through? >> well, there is a statement created -- a set of bills regarding seclusion and restraint. so, i'll pass that on to you. >> -- and michelle are going to introduce that. >> do you actually just want
to move it to approval, or-- >> sure. >> that would be wonderful. >> do i move it? >> make a motion. >> i make a motion that we approve the-- this thing here. >> it's been moved and supported.
i think the statement is in line with the action we've previously taken on the issue. there's nothing new here i don't think, there? >> no, but we like to talk for 15 or 20 minutes about it. [laughter] >> thank you, eileen
and michelle for working >> thank you very much for working on it. >> did somebody support it? >> yes, it's been moved any questions on it? seeing none, all in favor say aye? >> opposed?
anything else? >> nope. >> all right, consent agenda? >> i move support of the consent agenda. >> it's been moved. is there support? >> support. >> it's been moved and supported
any questions? seeing none, all in favor-- oh, sorry. >> the only item is the endorsement. >> any-- okay. all those in favor say aye. >> opposed, the same. is there any comments by
the state board members. >> i've already given the -- >> you already reported your commission. >> yes, i did. >> i would just like to say, i met recently [indistinct] and they came out with this report so i just brought a copy
for everyone so you can read it at your leisure. >> i would like to say, i was very impressed by the testimony today and everybody's views. but, the people were very polite and orderly and respectful, and i think it was exhausting example of, as one
of the speakers said, an example of democracy. and i'd like to congratulate all my colleagues. >> yes, lupe? >> i want to go back to the agenda, because you missed something very important-- nasbe.
we have a deadline of june the 8th, and it's to elect or recommend somebody for president elect, and an area director, and then awards. but i guess you could go to our e-mail that marilyn sent, and if you have recommendations you can send them to me.
>> could we bring it back up at our retreat next week? that would be before the deadline. >> yeah, it should be. yeah, we can make time for it. >> yeah, that's a good idea. >> all right. future meeting dates.
wednesday, may 18th, board retreat. no official action may be taken on issues, although we may have a conversation on who you recommend for the board. tuesday, june 14th, regular meeting. august 9th, regular meeting.
>> you might tell them where the retreat is. >> the michigan school of the deaf in flint. retreat may 18th, starting at 9:30 at the michigan school for the deaf. >> and did they move the school, or is it in the same--
>> no, it's in the same place. >> we'll send some directions. with that we are adjourned. thank you, everybody.
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